Use of Native American Imagery in Sports

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Sakari

I'm pretty sure "Indian" comes from the word "Indigenous". Not "terrible people nobody likes". Aren't there more important issues to worry about? Like psychotic Koreans with nuclear arms? Cancer? AIDS? Bullying?

"Indian" comes from "India", because Columbus thought he found a route to India, not the New World.

[undercoverbrother]

Hello from Red Deer

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The should change the Redskins to the Whiteskins. That would solve the problem.

They should have the name mirror the the skin coulour of those playing, greatest percentage on the team wins.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Hello from Red Deer

GO Red Deer Sutter Fund Chiefs!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I feel like that's a billion times more racist, but I'm not sure why.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

GO Red Deer Sutter Fund Chiefs!

[Sakari]

Originally Posted by troutman

"Indian" comes from "India", because Columbus though he found a route to India, not the New World.

My point remains.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by troutman

"Indian" comes from "India", because Columbus though he found a route to India, not the New World.

It's been six hundred years; whatever the word's etymology, it matters not one bit of difference to what it actually means now. And it's used to describe natives. It's not a slur. This is a 'dogs v canines' equation; both are right. One is more colloquial, the other is motivated by the modern day blue-eyed devil feeling guilty about something they had no part in whatsoever.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's been six hundred years; whatever the word's etymology, it matters not one bit of difference to what it actually means now. And it's used to describe natives. It's not a slur. This is a 'dogs v canines' equation; both are right. One is more colloquial, the other is motivated by the modern day blue-eyed devil feeling guilty about something they had no part in whatsoever.

Do natives mind being called Indians (honest question)? I could ask next time I am in Hobbema.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Sakari

I'm pretty sure "Indian" comes from the word "Indigenous". Not "terrible people nobody likes". Aren't there more important issues to worry about? Like psychotic Koreans with nuclear arms? Cancer? AIDS? Bullying?

Bullying? Would that be like this http://bullyingcanada.ca/content/239900

Verbal bullying - name-calling, sarcasm, teasing, spreading rumours, threatening, making negative references to one's culture, ethnicity, race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation, unwanted sexual comments.

Social Bullying - mobbing, scapegoating, excluding others from a group, humiliating others with public gestures or graffiti intended to put others down.

Cyber Bullying - using the internet or text messaging to intimidate, put-down, spread rumours or make fun of someone.

So name calling, teasing, making negative references to one's culture, ethnicity, race etc. unwanted comments, scapegoating, humiliating others with public gestures or symbols, making fun of someone that is more serious that a debate about whether sports teams names amount to making a negative reference about one's culture or are humiliating public symbols?

I am pretty sure they are not mutually exclusive anyway, it is not like the average person is sitting at home thinking "Hey I could worry about AIDS or I could worry about inappropriate sports nicknames, but I cannot worry about both, which will it be today" or "Geez, if I did not spend so much time worrying about inappropriate sports names the North Koreans would not have got their nuclear weapon".

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Do natives mind being called Indians (honest question)? I could ask next time I am in Hobbema.

Depends if you talk to a native, or to a native rights activist.

From the SI article I linked to earlier.

Indeed, a recent SI poll suggests that although Native American activists are virtually united in opposition to the use of Indian nicknames and mascots, the Native American population sees the issue far differently. Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no. As for pro sports, 83% of Native American respondents said teams should not stop using Indian nicknames, mascots, characters and symbols. Opinion is far more divided on reservations, yet a majority (67%) there said the usage by pro teams should not cease, while 32% said it should.

[You Need a Thneed]

There can be nothing offensive about the "Braves" and the "Chiefs", IMO. Some of the other ones are a little bit more gray area.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Depends if you talk to a native, or to a native rights activist.

From the SI article I linked to earlier.

Sure when lumped together you're going to get those results. I think if they asked about "Redskins" specifically (and excluded more innocuous names like "Chiefs" and "Braves") that the numbers would look much different.

Here's a good litmus test: would you ever approach a Native Canadian and call them "Redskin"? If not, why not?

[Badger Bob]

How would we ever understand words and meaning without somebody copying & pasting dictionary definitions on a hockey message board?

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Your country has done a little better than mine. Try spending a weekend at Pine Ridge and see if you're still sick of that attitude.

I was completely unaware of Pine Ridge until I saw the movie Reel Injun. How sad thatthe richest continent on Earth lets that happen.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Do natives mind being called Indians (honest question)? I could ask next time I am in Hobbema.

I grew up in a small town in the north where there a few reserves near town. Have a couple buddies who are native and they think its stupid when they're referred to as natives, aboriginals or First Nations. The reserves are still called Indian bands. It's obviously a historically incorrect term but I don't get the impression that the majority of First Nations think its a big deal, but I could be out to lunch.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I grew up in a small town in the north where there a few reserves near town. Have a couple buddies who are native and they think its stupid when they're referred to as natives, aboriginals or First Nations. The reserves are still called Indian bands. It's obviously a historically incorrect term but I don't get the impression that the majority of First Nations think its a big deal, but I could be out to lunch.

I found the same thing, but I also found that many Ojibwe people I met just preferred being called Ojibwe.

Of course, it's not always obvious to an outsider and many traditional territories overlap, so it's probably better to be cautious.

There has to be some First Nations people that post or read this forum. I'd love to know what their take is.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sure when lumped together you're going to get those results. I think if they asked about "Redskins" specifically (and excluded more innocuous names like "Chiefs" and "Braves") that the numbers would look much different.

Here's a good litmus test: would you ever approach a Native Canadian and call them "Redskin"? If not, why not?

Would you ever approach anyone and start a conversation like that? It's awkward as Hell, that's why no one does it. Sorta like how no Indians would ever say 'hey pale face, you got the time?'

[stignasty]

When I was doing my master's I wrote a paper about the attempts to protect and revitalize First Nations languages. I had little luck finding articles about "First Nations," "Aboriginal," "Native American," or "Indigenous" languages. I had much more success when I searched the academic journals using "American Indian."

That being said, I work on a reserve with native people every day. I don't use the term "Indian," but that's how they refer to themselves more often than not. Maybe we could just call it the "I word."

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Would you ever approach anyone and start a conversation like that? It's awkward as Hell, that's why no one does it. Sorta like how no Indians would ever say 'hey pale face, you got the time?'

I think he meant more in the context of how you'd describe the plot of Pocahontas to a Native. Would you say, "so there was Redskin girl..."? Similarly, if you had to go to a reservation, would you be embarrassed to be wearing a shirt with this logo?