Of course that is true, but the same can be said for why David brought back the jar of goo in Prometheus (something that other people have called a plot hole).
No the question is why does he 'Poison/test' on the person with the most expertise about a mission his creator has funded and needs to live?
I honestly think if they had brought the 'Grunts/Security' along to the compound you could have eliminated a lot of stupid parts. (Not to mention why did you bring security on the trip but not to the compound? Why would you assume hire mercenaries will automatically shoot everything? They are paid professionals on a billion dollar mission)
Biologist and Geologist get lost - Make Grunts get lost
Biologist touches Alien - Make grunts touch Alien
Poison/Test of main scientist - Test on Grunts
The Biologist and Geologist then could have actually added some scientific knowledge and potentially filled in some of the plotholes/questions.
At least it would have eliminated the whole "We are on arguably the most important scientific mission in human history, and we have only morons part-take"
Different times. With the internet anyone with a keyboard can now call themselves a movie critic. Dissecting, being critical, and passing off your opinion as relevant is empowering for nerds behind a keyboards. Now I like most here know what a truly bad movie is. Seen lots and probably more than most here but this isn't a bad movie. Perfection? Absolutely not but taken in as an experience its mostly satisfying.
How about this - for those who loved "Alien" and Aliens, but hated "Prometheus", try to explain why you loved one but not the other.
Alright, I’ll bite. I spent a long time writing this post only to lose everything I’d written so bear with me as I try to remember everything I wrote. Alien and Aliens are fantastic films. What makes them great is that they have simple plots, one easily identifiable adversary and excellent characters.
Spoiler'd for length
Spoiler!
Alien’s plot is pretty straight-forward. The crew of the Nostromo are awoken from stasis and are tasked with investigating a SOS distress call from a nearby planet. Once planet-side they discover a derelict spaceship of unknown origin. They quickly realize the ship is not human in origin and Kane discovers leathery looking objects inside. Upon taking a closer look Kane discovers that they are in fact eggs and before he has a chance to react he is attacked by an alien parasite which quickly hatches from one of these eggs and attaches itself to his face. He is brought onboard the Nostromo despite Ridley’s (who is acting commander) protests. The face hugger eventually dies, Kane regains consciousness and he appears to be normal until a new alien bursts out of his chest. The crew is now forced to capture/kill the alien aboard their ship. The “plot twist” comes in the form of Ash’s betrayal who we find out is actually an android and is following the Company’s orders to bring back one of these aliens for study. The plot is simple and it flows and unfolds naturally as the movie progresses.
Aliens has a similar plot to Alien. A crew (this time comprised of space marines) must investigate a colony that has gone silent. This colony is located on the same planet as the one discovered in Alien. They run into an alien infestation and are forced to kill their way out. They are similarly betrayed by Burke who like Ash is working for the Company. What makes Aliens great however, are the memorable characters. Hudson’s, “it’s game over man!” line is so recognizable that even people who haven’t seen the movie know that it’s from Aliens. Even minor characters like Cpl. Ferro are colorful and interesting. Blizzard ripped this character straight out of Aliens (including some of her lines) and used her as the drop ship unit in Starcraft. The characters in Aliens are what make the film great and what keeps it from being a mediocre action movie.
I originally gave Prometheus a 6.5/10 and I’ll stand by that. I didn’t “hate” it but it’s far from a good movie in my opinion. Visually, the film is impressive but if I were to sum up the issues I have with Prometheus they would be that it has too many antagonists (which complicate the plot) and terrible characters (aside from David).
The plot of Prometheus is bogged down by introducing too many adversaries. It’s pretty obvious that Scott was trying to replicate moments from Alien. They had an “egg” room except this time it’s full of vases that contain black goo. David steals one of these eggs and infects Holloway. Ok cool, this is how the alien parasite is going to kick start this party. Wait, nope… that goo has also turned some worms into some kind of face hugger worms that attack the geologist and biologist who are lost/trapped inside the structure. Alright. The crew goes back to find these two and discover that they are dead. Holloway isn’t doing so great and it’s becoming clearer that he is infected with some sort of alien parasite. They are forced to kill him lest he spread the parasite to the rest of the crew. Too late. Shaw has already been infected and she is pregnant with an alien life-form. She runs to surgical machine to have it pulled out of her. Meanwhile, the dead geologist suddenly appears outside the Prometheus and is now a zombie with super strength and he proceeds to kill off a number of crew members. What? Weyland is onboard (that’s the worst kept secret). They have to go awaken an engineer RIGHT NOW so they can speak to it. It wants to kill them too. Oh hey, remember that alien parasite Shaw aborted? Ya that thing is now a giant squid face hugger that also wants to kill them. They made the film unnecessarily complex by adding in too many adversaries. They should have stuck with the engineer. The movie didn’t need to have zombies or three different types of parasites. It complicates the plot, makes the film feel disjointed and messes with the flow of events.
I can overlook “plot holes” if there are interesting characters. Aside from David, none of the characters have any sort of dimension to them. 75% of the crew is never introduced and we know next to nothing about any of the characters. The ones we do know something about are wildly inconsistent with what we’re shown on screen. I’ll use the geologist and biologist because they are the best example. These two freak out at the sight of the dead engineer and decide to hightail it back to the ship. They get lost (this isn’t important) and stumble across a pile of dead engineers. The pair freak out again and decide to get as far away from them as possible which apparently is the room where they encountered the first dead engineer. Why would they camp out in this room? It makes no sense given what we’ve seen of these characters to accept that they’d set up inside this one room. At best I could see them camping outside the room but not actually in it. Then the biologist suddenly grows a spine when confronted with the parasitic worms even though he was pissing his pants over some dead engineers? Give me some credit please. I am not asking for you to hold my hand throughout the entire movie but establish your characters and have them make consistent choices. I can forgive plot holes and errors if your characters are worth investing in. As it stands, the characters simply serve as tools to force the rickety plot along.
I apologize because this was better articulated the first time I wrote it. For those who don’t want to read an essay, Alien and Aliens are great films because they have simple plots that naturally unfold with characters that are interesting and iconic. Prometheus tries to introduce too much into the plot and the characters are almost all one-dimensional red shirts.
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Not that I agree with every thing you said, but good you broke it down with good points.
The mess of ugly alien characters was the draw back for me, it would have been great if they awoke the engineer early and he was the main antagonist throughout.
Alas, that's why its a movie I really like, a solid 7,and not a 9 or ten.
I've had a movie crush on Fassbender lately and man he knocked his role out of the park. It's a shame a performance like this in a Sci - Fi movie won't get oscar buzz.
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Then, MMF, I think you hand out near perfect marks too easily.
I agree with everything written by Stealth, but I also thought the movie wasn't so impressive visually as to make up for what was, a dismal, disjointed and shallow story with terrible, terrible characters.
6.5 is generous in my opinion and doesn't reflect just how 'meh' the movie was. I would say it was a slightly below average movie.
It's not Thor bad, but I don't think I'll get anything more out of watching it a second time.
Then, MMF, I think you hand out near perfect marks too easily.
I agree with everything written by Stealth, but I also thought the movie wasn't so impressive visually as to make up for what was, a dismal, disjointed and shallow story with terrible, terrible characters.
6.5 is generous in my opinion and doesn't reflect just how 'meh' the movie was. I would say it was a slightly below average movie.
It's not Thor bad, but I don't think I'll get anything more out of watching it a second time.
3.5 for the visuals and 3 for Fassbender. I don't even want to think of what Prometheus would have been without Fassbender.
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just the fact that the debate has gone on this long means that the writer accomplished his goal, broken plot or not. there is not a chance an AVP thread would have this endless discussion on the meaning of all the little nuances that weren't explained. maybe a cheap way to get the word of mouth going, even if a lot of moviegoers were irritated by it.
that being said, I also concur about the mess of alien characters. that black goo is the most convoluted biological weapon ever conceived...it turns worms into acid snakes that jump down your throat but don't impregnate you with anything. it turns humans into raging Frankenstein monsters with squid sperm that can give birth to giant squids that will jump down your throat and impregnate you with xenomorphs. what's the point of that, I'd say the giant squid is a lot more dangerous than the xenomorph it gives birth to.
Maybe the biological weapon was engineered to be so complex that it destroys your brain just thinking about it...I bet that one dead engineer re-awakened and tried to remember what they were working on, which is why his head exploded.
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It was a good movie. The trailer, Alien thing, and Ridley Scott elevated my expectations to 'best sci-fi movie EVAR'.
So in that sense, it was a disappointment. Too many themes, characters, plot points, etc... crammed into one movie. I'm pretty sure the directors cut will flesh it all out much clearer.
just the fact that the debate has gone on this long means that the writer accomplished his goal, broken plot or not. there is not a chance an AVP thread would have this endless discussion on the meaning of all the little nuances that weren't explained. maybe a cheap way to get the word of mouth going, even if a lot of moviegoers were irritated by it.
that being said, I also concur about the mess of alien characters. that black goo is the most convoluted biological weapon ever conceived...it turns worms into acid snakes that jump down your throat but don't impregnate you with anything. it turns humans into raging Frankenstein monsters with squid sperm that can give birth to giant squids that will jump down your throat and impregnate you with xenomorphs. what's the point of that, I'd say the giant squid is a lot more dangerous than the xenomorph it gives birth to.
Maybe the biological weapon was engineered to be so complex that it destroys your brain just thinking about it...I bet that one dead engineer re-awakened and tried to remember what they were working on, which is why his head exploded.
The problem with AVP is that they were action movies with entirely forgettable characters. Get some space marines in there. You totally need a squad of ultimate bad asses for an AVP movie to be successful.
I think that this generation requires instant gratification. Unanswered questions to them are 'plot holes' because they prefer their hands held throughout the movie. It's not like it's a 90 minute movie where half of it was left on the cutting room floor but it's a two houre movie. It's the 3rd highest rated summer movie according to Rotten Tomatoes but from some posters you would think it's going to be front and center for a Razzie award. That's not the case as it has been shown the majority of critics and moviegoers liked the movie but there is this loud very vocal minority that demands that entertainment alone is not good enough of a reason to like a movie. They demand answers.
Ha “this generation” what a lazy way to create an us vs. them mentality. If requiring a well thought-out plot that isn’t lazy, and is able to create ambiguity without being totally careless and somewhat concerned with logic, then yes I need someone to hold my hand. I won’t got into the vast litany of details that add up to nothing more than neglectful writing, as they have already been covered in previous posts but to suggest that surface level entertainment is enough to make a movie good is asinine, well maybe not for “your generation”.
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Didn't you once post you only like 2-3 movies a year, and those you do enjoy you watch them into the ground?
Not to pull a Cecil here and be a dick but.. who cares then?
Well nobody cares, or at least they shouldn’t. But this is a message board were people are encouraged to share their opinions and when the topic is a film I’ve recently watched then *gasp* I am inclined to share mine as well. But you are right, I rarely enjoy movies, which is why I almost never watch them. When I do it’s because I get genuinely intrigued and excited by the trailers, which was the case in Prometheus.
Well nobody cares, or at least they shouldn’t. But this is a message board were people are encouraged to share their opinions and when the topic is a film I’ve recently watched then *gasp* I am inclined to share mine as well. But you are right, I rarely enjoy movies, which is why I almost never watch them. When I do it’s because I get genuinely intrigued and excited by the trailers, which was the case in Prometheus.
It just seems odd to watch things when you know that you will be sorely dissapointed.
/flames fan
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I've read a few explanations on this (and some pretty neat stuff that I missed); still a few things I don't understand:
- so what was the point of the opening scene?
- why do the Engineers want to destroy Earth? so it wasn't an invitation then?
- those attacking worms that first attacked the geologist, were the worms always there? or did it come on the ship?
- what cause the storm? was it David punching in that code into the wall the triggered the storm?
FTR : I didn't like the movie because I was confused.... I think they tried to cram too many plots at once. Some of the ideas (now that I read reviews on the net) are neat but I totally missed it.
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
I've read a few explanations on this (and some pretty neat stuff that I missed); still a few things I don't understand:
- so what was the point of the opening scene?
- why do the Engineers want to destroy Earth? so it wasn't an invitation then?
- those attacking worms that first attacked the geologist, were the worms always there? or did it come on the ship?
- what cause the storm? was it David punching in that code into the wall the triggered the storm?
FTR : I didn't like the movie because I was confused.... I think they tried to cram too many plots at once. Some of the ideas (now that I read reviews on the net) are neat but I totally missed it.
The worms were in the soil when they opened the vase room. I am pretty sure they were always there and the goo just turned them into the crazy steroid worms when it leaked.
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You thanked the post above which totalled 6.5, half a mark below mine lol.
I suppose 6.5 is probably over generous considering I won't be buying it when it comes out on Bluray and I do buy quite a few movies. I guess that's what's most telling because I've bought some pretty bad films over the years.
