2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Never even really heard of this guy. WHIP of 1.1 last season is pleasing to the eye.

Anyone watched him pitch? Any description / comparables?

He was actually part of the Jays org as a hitter if you can believe that. Was part of the Troy Glaus / O-Dog trade.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

He was actually part of the Jays org as a hitter if you can believe that. Was part of the Troy Glaus / O-Dog trade.

He was a shortstop. I read AA was an assistant then and the org had asked Santos to move into a pitcher (?) and he refused.

[The Big Chill]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=382126

Mets sign Rauch, pending physical. Good news for us as he was a type B FA.

[Matty81]

Good move today I thought. Saw Santos a couple times this year and he has lights out stuff. Picking up an established closer with that few innings on his arm and that contract for a single A starter who barely breaks 90mph is a good deal IMO. Would be great if they could pick up one more 8th/9th inning guy to setup or close with him. The old jays were so good in the later innings because they had ward and henke.

The payroll talk worries me a little. The new rules aren't going to be kind to teams in big markets that don't spend. I am hoping AA is in on Fielder and just really pushing for shorter term.

Also I am hoping Johnson leaves but don't hate having him back either. Would rather have a plus defender in that position.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=382126

Mets sign Rauch, pending physical. Good news for us as he was a type B FA.

LOL, the mets signed Francisco as well...wow, good for them? What the hell are they doing?

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...97882/33737135

[KootenayFlamesFan]

6 mil a year for Francisco? That's interesting.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Matty81

The payroll talk worries me a little. The new rules aren't going to be kind to teams in big markets that don't spend. I am hoping AA is in on Fielder and just really pushing for shorter term.

The SNET ticker tonight was reporting that the Mariners are now the frontrunners for Fielder, whatever that's worth.

[Caged Great]

Another one to file in the nonsense bs rumour column

Apparently the jays and reds are talking about Escobar for Brandon Phillips trade. Which makes almost zero sense. In addition, we would supposedly have Hechivarria come up and play SS.

Seems like total bs.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Another one to file in the nonsense bs rumour column

Apparently the jays and reds are talking about Escobar for Brandon Phillips trade. Which makes almost zero sense. In addition, we would supposedly have Hechivarria come up and play SS.

Seems like total bs.

DrunkJaysFans pretty much proved this wrong from every possible angle.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Escobar better not go anywhere unless it's a major upgrade.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Another one to file in the nonsense bs rumour column

Apparently the jays and reds are talking about Escobar for Brandon Phillips trade. Which makes almost zero sense. In addition, we would supposedly have Hechivarria come up and play SS.

Seems like total bs.

Ya that sounds completely bogus.

Hechivarria is no where close to being MLB ready while none of the money, years of control, or any of the things that AA considers when doing deals lines up.

[Caged Great]

The only way it makes any sense is if we have a deal in place for Hanley, otherwise it's crazy.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

If you can picture Jose Valverde and his typical 9th inning saves - that is Sergio Santos. Never a clean 9th it seemed, as I listen to a pile of Sox baseball on XM. Lost his job a few times to Thornton/Sale, only to get it back - due to the both of them being worse.

Didn't Thornton lose it to Sale, who lost it to Santos who never looked back?

Judging by his game logs:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&t=p&year=2011

all of the saves and GF's appear to show that he took over as closer in late April and never really lost it.

Sale had a couple of 2 inning saves late

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ech01&t=p&year=

Thornton got the chance early and blew 4 straight saves. He ended with 3 on the year, one in the 10th and two 2 inning saves.

For someone who listens to a lot of Sox games, you seem to be not picking up on things....maybe some you jammed the Q-Tip in too far. j/k

[Otsy]

What I don't understand is why the White Sox are going back to Thornton as a closer next year. Sale is moving to the starting rotation where he belongs and that just leaves Thornton at the back end. Maybe, hopefully for them, he just had an off year.

I'd love Brandon Phillips at 2B, but not over the cost of a shortstop. If we could pry him for a non starting player that'd be great. Potential to be a 30-30 guy every year.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Otsy

What I don't understand is why the White Sox are going back to Thornton as a closer next year. Sale is moving to the starting rotation where he belongs and that just leaves Thornton at the back end. Maybe, hopefully for them, he just had an off year.

I'd love Brandon Phillips at 2B, but not over the cost of a shortstop. If we could pry him for a non starting player that'd be great. Potential to be a 30-30 guy every year.

I hope when Adeiny Hechavarria is ready for the bigs, he may move to 2nd base given his current prowess at ss.

[dustyanddaflames]

I didn't obviously research the numbers - but I do remember in late July and into early August, Santos was in trouble after having an outstanding first couple of months to the season - and yielded to Thornton/Sale to bail him out of trouble. Santos also faultered down the stretch in September (9.72 ERA) and I believe that if the Sox were in any position for an October spot, they would have had been forced to explore alternative options.

You're right, Santos didn't lose his spot as I said - I should have rephrased it, by saying, that Santos lost the confidence of Ozzie Guillen a few times throughout the season, and that the lack of an alternative option kept Santos in the closer role longer than most would have.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I didn't obviously research the numbers - but I do remember in late July and into early August, Santos was in trouble after having an outstanding first couple of months to the season - and yielded to Thornton/Sale to bail him out of trouble. Santos also faultered down the stretch in September (9.72 ERA) and I believe that if the Sox were in any position for an October spot, they would have had been forced to explore alternative options.

You're right, Santos didn't lose his spot as I said - I should have rephrased it, by saying, that Santos lost the confidence of Ozzie Guillen a few times throughout the season, and that the lack of an alternative option kept Santos in the closer role longer than most would have.

Yeah, but the Sox were playing out the string for a manager that they knew would be gone, so I won't hold that against Santos, but yeah 9 of his 25 earned runs came in September. Maybe the Sox saw something, I tend to think it was a bad month. He still struck out 15 guys in his 8 2/3 September innings.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by zukes

Yeah, but the Sox were playing out the string for a manager that they knew would be gone, so I won't hold that against Santos, but yeah 9 of his 25 earned runs came in September. Maybe the Sox saw something, I tend to think it was a bad month. He still struck out 15 guys in his 8 2/3 September innings.

I wasn't meaning that I was holding it against Santos - more so reffering to that fact that if the Sox were in a playoff push, they may have been forced to go elsewhere for saves due to Santos' terrible September.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I wasn't meaning that I was holding it against Santos - more so reffering to that fact that if the Sox were in a playoff push, they may have been forced to go elsewhere for saves due to Santos' terrible September.

For sure if he was having that bad of a month.

I am hoping, thinking that if they knew the manager would be sticking around and they weren't playing out the string heading into a rebuild, he may have pitched better as well.

Either way, I am all in on this trade. From what I have read, I am of the opinion that the Jays made sure Molina's name was out there due to his success at Double A, pumped him into a worthy prospect, which he may just be and then sold high. If Santos is an average or above closer for the next few years, or dare I say all 6 years, I think that unless Molina becomes a true #1 or #2 starter, the Jays can't lose this trade.

I think even if Molina does become that #1 or #2 starter but heir other prospects pan out, again assuming santos fills the void of a consistent closer year to year that the Jays have not had in forever, it's a win.

People say that the closer is a fabricated position, but I see it differently. True all saves aren't equal, and yes there are other high leverage situations, but the closer is also the guy that comes in when you are very likely to not have another kick at the can, or only one, if he screws up. There is a mental toughness that many talented people just don't have.

The other thing is if the Jays can get the saves from a guy who they are paying far less than market value, that can be a huge boon for a team who says it can spend, but does not have an unlimited budget.

[dustyanddaflames]

Agreed on the mentality of a closer - and after a little more thought on the trade, I really like it. Though Santos has only been closing for a season, you at least know he can get the job done (30/36 in sv opps in his first season closing).

I said it earlier, but I was so sick and tired of the Blue Jays using a closer by committee approach, as it rarely pans out the way it is intended to. The last time the Blue Jays actually had a legitimate closer, was BJ Ryan (though that didn't go as well as planned). But who was the last "closer" the Jays had before him? Tom Henke? Honestly, I can't think of a closer the Jays used that actually had success in the role for more than maybe a season. It has seemed like a revolving door in the ninth inning - and with the Jays nearing a stage where the begin to compete for a playoff spot, a blown save might mean the difference between a one-game playoff or sitting on the sidelines in October. Anthopolous didn't break the bank regardless of how Molina pans out, and acquired a great arm, who has the experience of closing out games (albeit limited).