The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[getbak]

https://movieweb.com/rotten-tomatoes...ore-fake-news/

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why? How can you say an audience's thought on a movie is complete BS?

You yourself thought the movie was just ok. Who cares if someone thought it didn't make it to that level?

Do you have other examples of where RT audience score was so clearly BS, or did someone, for some reason, decide that Star Wars: The Last Jedi was the movie they would screw with? I guess it could be Snoke's doing...would make more sense than the movie.

But the more likely event is, hey some people didn't like the movie so much.

The article is stating what most reasonable people know. That online polls are not scientific and can be manipulated.

CinemaScore uses scientific polling of audience reaction, so that is going to be an obviously more accurate representation.

The Deadline article referenced in that article goes into more detail.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Are you just angry that not a lot of people agree with you here? It makes no sense. Why does your hatred of the movie need to be legitimized by making unprovable statements?

Agree with me about what? I didn't like the movies, others did. And a lot of others didn't. I don't really care.

The argument seems to be that there isn't a lot of fans who disliked the movie, yet you don't have to look very far to see that's not the case...Read this thread, read Reddit, the audience score seems accurate enough. Some loved it, some hated it, some thought it was okay and others thought it was a bore.

But now we are at a "scientific approach" because the people don't want to admit that a large (maybe not majority) thought it was bad? Okay guys, take it down a notch ha.

[SuperMatt18]

Rotten Tomatoes fan score is going to be skewed.

Both 4Chan and Reddit had groups of people that were actively looking to crash it's fan score on Rotten Tomatoes.

So that is what you are seeing there.

IMDB and Metacritic both have fan scores at 8/10, the critic responses are positive across both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, and the actual Cinema Score rating is A.

Don't be fooled by the Rotten Tomatoes score being "Jihaded" to use a classic CP term.

[getbak]

Everyone knows that it's impossible for a group of people with too much time on their hands to have any ability to skew the results of an online voting system.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by ernie

It's not a perfect movie. But it's a good one and movie goers seem to be saying the same thing.

Yeah.. I mean I liked it... I thought it was ok... but I didn't love it. I loved the original trilogy and I loved The Force Awakens so I guess I would put this on the same strata as Revenge of the Sith (which is the best of the prequels).

I just had higher expectations.

[SuperMatt18]

One complaint I don't get is the hatred for the Casino scene "not meaning anything".

I get the complaints about the cute critters, and the overall execution of the scene, but I think there was a clear reason for it.

It was the first "spark" that is meant to light a fire for the Galaxy.

The "rebellion" went to the elite, destroyed a casino, broke out of their jail, and set a bunch of animals/kids free. Sure in the end their plan was foiled, and it didn't have a profound immediate impact on the fight vs. the rebellion, but the people of that planet now are talking about the Rebellion & Finn.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Take a look at the first page of this thread.

OutOfTheCube
speede5
ComixZone
Roughneck

None of them gave positive reviews. And that's out of the first 10 or so reviews on this site. Not that the others were all positive, some were in the middle, others really positive. It's a divisive movie, some people enjoyed it, others didn't. But you guys are acting like the entirety of the audience did enjoy it. No, it's not fake news saying a lot of fans were disappointed ha.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Rotten Tomatoes fan score is going to be skewed.

Both 4Chan and Reddit had groups of people that were actively looking to crash it's fan score on Rotten Tomatoes.

So that is what you are seeing there.

IMDB and Metacritic both have fan scores at 8/10, the critic responses are positive across both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, and the actual Cinema Score rating is A.

Don't be fooled by the Rotten Tomatoes score being "Jihaded" to use a classic CP term.

IMDB almost always has high audience scores.

The User score on Metacritic is 4.9. It's bad there too:

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star...i/user-reviews

[nfotiu]

I don't see any reason to doubt the credibility of the CinemaScore saying 89% liked it. Which is a few percentages below the last 2 movies.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

IMDB almost always has high audience scores.

The User score on Metacritic is 4.9. It's bad there too:

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star...i/user-reviews

Except it is another site that is easily flooded with votes.

There's a ton of evidence to suggest there is ballot stuffing going on here. I don't know why people are so keen to have their opinions validated with clearly false information.

Does your hatred of this movie somehow seem more valid if you know other people hated it too? It simply isn't the case. People generally seem to like it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Take a look at the first page of this thread.

OutOfTheCube
speede5
ComixZone
Roughneck

None of them gave positive reviews. And that's out of the first 10 or so reviews on this site. Not that the others were all positive, some were in the middle, others really positive. It's a divisive movie, some people enjoyed it, others didn't. But you guys are acting like the entirety of the audience did enjoy it. No, it's not fake news saying a lot of fans were disappointed ha.

Never once said that - on that first page I said right then it was going to be divisive but there is a difference between it being a “bad” movie and somebody not liking a movie.

My argument was with OutOfTheCube saying that people need to come to terms with it being a bad movie. That was a false statement. The critics and ratings all say it’s a good movie. If anything it’s the opposite for the most part it’s a good movie and the people that dislike it need to understand that they dislike what is a good but not a great movie for the most part.

And I have no issue with that - I get it and said it from my first point in this thread. If you love Luke and want to see him as the hero with no faults...probably not going to like his story arc for 2/3 of this movie. If you wanted more info on Snoke/Rey’s parents...probably not going to like this movie. If you hate anytime that Star Wars introduces a cute character for no real reason (looking at you Porgs) ... you’re probably not going to like this movie.

But all of those things don’t mean the movie is bad, it just means that it’s not the Star Wars movie that a lot of the fan base wanted it to be and that’s a fair criticism. Rian Johnson took this in a different direction than the fan base wanted and IMO honestly it’s going to be hard for a lot of the fan base to overcome that until we get closure on this trilogy in episode 9.

[octothorp]

It amazes me that Star Wars writers continue to feel like they need some massive, overarching threat (destroy X before the empire uses it to destroy Y). ESB seems to be universally agreed upon as the best of the franchise, and yet it's the only non-prequel one that doesn't have an overarching threat. There was a lot I liked in the details but I wasn't fond of the slow race through space as a central anchor for the plot; it didn't really make logical sense, and it's hard to overlook since it's so central.

I've also been asking since I was a teenager why nobody in the Star Wars universe ever weaponizes hyperspace (ie. attaching hyperspace drives to a big chunk of matter, pointing it at a target, and pressing go). It was a big 'told you so' moment for me that hyperspace can, in fact, be used that way, although also emphasizes how silly it is that up to this point, neither this ruthless empire or desperate rebel alliance has done so.

I'm okay with Snoke being just this unexplained figure who it turns out is just kinda a second-rate Sith, and I did like Rey's parents being explained as nobodies (at least for now, I could also see a possibility that Kylo was lying). There were a lot of little details that I liked, particularly between Luke/Rey/Kylo. The humor was good (I loved Chewbacca and the little furry owls). The Casino planet felt a little 'prequelish' IMO, but I liked Rose and Finn's presence together.

[SuperMatt18]

Going back to that post on ring theory - there are a lot of similarities between Empire and The Last Jedi. Probably shouldnt be surprised that the movie that is based on the most liked of the Star Wars movies and is also the most polarizing (everyone thought the Prequels were bad, this one is more polarizing.)

Movie starts with hero’s needing to flee their base after dark side finds them - yup.

Riding funny looking animals in a story line that arguably has no real purpose - Yup. It Doesn’t get mentioned a lot but the battle on Hoth for the first half out of Empire really has no purpose outside of the heroes escaping.

Random new character betrays the heroes getting them captured - yup.

Young Jedi goes to old Jedi for training but what they find is somewhat unexpected - yup (Grumpy Luke vs. Goofy Yoda - kind of funny because ppl weren’t overly happy with how Yoda was portrayed in the prequels, similar complaints for how Luke portrayed here.)

Young Jedi ignores the Jedi master and makes decision to confront Sith Lord - yup

Parentage of young Jedi revealed - yup.

Empire was much tighter in its execution and kept things much simpler than the Last Jedi but the overarching plot is pretty similar when you look at it. Also think that the big twist of Vader being Lukes father is what really makes that movie work - its just he reveal that Rey is “no one” that kinda falls flat in TLJ

[Northendzone]

I enjoyed the movie warts and all.

I think part of the reason I enjoy these movies because they take me back to the days when I was 12/13 and life was more uncomplicated.

how many movies have really tight plots with no visible holes in them?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by octothorp

It amazes me that Star Wars writers continue to feel like they need some massive, overarching threat (destroy X before the empire uses it to destroy Y). ESB seems to be universally agreed upon as the best of the franchise, and yet it's the only non-prequel one that doesn't have an overarching threat. There was a lot I liked in the details but I wasn't fond of the slow race through space as a central anchor for the plot; it didn't really make logical sense, and it's hard to overlook since it's so central.

I've also been asking since I was a teenager why nobody in the Star Wars universe ever weaponizes hyperspace (ie. attaching hyperspace drives to a big chunk of matter, pointing it at a target, and pressing go). It was a big 'told you so' moment for me that hyperspace can, in fact, be used that way, although also emphasizes how silly it is that up to this point, neither this ruthless empire or desperate rebel alliance has done so.

I'm okay with Snoke being just this unexplained figure who it turns out is just kinda a second-rate Sith, and I did like Rey's parents being explained as nobodies (at least for now, I could also see a possibility that Kylo was lying). There were a lot of little details that I liked, particularly between Luke/Rey/Kylo. The humor was good (I loved Chewbacca and the little furry owls). The Casino planet felt a little 'prequelish' IMO, but I liked Rose and Finn's presence together.

I would have been find with the Snoke thing, had they actually revealed him to be second rate. However, his actual powers were way beyond any previous force users. He also stated that he'd been around for a long time. Had it been more of a Wizard of Oz type scenario, where Snoke was a just a fraudster manipulating Kylo Ren, that would have worked. Instead, it felt like 2 separate stories. In TFA Snoke is made out to be some huge power. That's confirmed at the begging of TLJ. Then Snoke is executed without explaining how he was so powerful. By inserting Snoke in with those powers, they fundamentally changed the laws of the universe.

[Wormius]

I thought it was a good movie, and I mean, I would happily sit and watch anything Star Wars for hours on end.

Still, I don't think it was a great story and it really borrow heavily on the ESB and ROTJ thematics, heck.. the Snoke scenes seem almost plagiarized from parts of ESB and ROTJ. The scenes on the island with Rey are very similar to those on Dagobah between Luke and Yoda. The "codebreaker" betrayal of Rosie and Finn was very Cloud City betrayal by Lando.

I thought the humour was pretty good in this. Flying space Leia was, well, surreal. She looked like a Statue of Liberty rocket.

This movie does though, now that it has pretty much done its own version of ANH/ESB/ROTJ can finally do something completely unique in the final act.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by blankall

I would have been find with the Snoke thing, had they actually revealed him to be second rate. However, his actual powers were way beyond any previous force users. He also stated that he'd been around for a long time. Had it been more of a Wizard of Oz type scenario, where Snoke was a just a fraudster manipulating Kylo Ren, that would have worked. Instead, it felt like 2 separate stories. In TFA Snoke is made out to be some huge power. That's confirmed at the begging of TLJ. Then Snoke is executed without explaining how he was so powerful. By inserting Snoke in with those powers, they fundamentally changed the laws of the universe.

See this was my biggest complaint too - I was able to get past it and still enjoy the movie but this one was a bigger issue to me personally than Rey having no parents (which I think is the right call even though the reveal felt a little flat).

What I do wonder though is if there is more to come from Snoke. Say he was in fact a reincarnated Plagius or Sidious - canon does include the fact that the Sith lord had learned how to create life - then you can't reveal that prior to killing him off. (Plus it's also in Canon that cutting a Sith Lord in half doesn't kill them - Vader & Maul)

I think it's very unlikely but if you did want a twist in 9 (really this is the only thing that stands out at this point with the way 8 ended) then this is probably the way to do it.

Snoke comes back. Reveals that he has transcended Sith or Jedi, able to bring himself back from the dead, and now has a bone to pick with Rey & Kylo. Those two have to work together to defeat this bigger/badder enemy - which leads to the true balance of the force - it's not about one side winning but it's about the darkness and light working together to defeat a greater evil.

Would also kind of tie back to what was never really elaborated on between Finn & Benicio Del Toro characters. About how it's not as clear as resistance vs. Empire with one side being clearly bad. There is more to it than that. Some of what Luke was saying also hinted at in this movie.

[OutOfTheCube]

You guys know the CinemaScore is a joke, right? Definitively garbage movies like Daddy's Home 2 (A-) and The Emoji Movie (B) have good or decent CinemaScores. Most people aren't going to flat out say they disliked a movie when someone is polling them as they leave.

Metascore and Rotten Tomatoes work differently, and aren't perfect, but give a better representation of if you liked it or not. You basically have the flood of people voting either a '0' if they didn't like it or a '10' if they did (even though the movie was clearly neither a '0' or a '10) and the score gets pushed one way or the other. With it sitting around 50% on both sites, and just based on comments you see everywhere, it's pretty clear the popular opinion is 50/50.

[belsarius]

See this was my biggest complaint too - I was able to get past it and still enjoy the movie but this one was a bigger issue to me personally than Rey having no parents (which I think is the right call even though the reveal felt a little flat).

What I do wonder though is if there is more to come from Snoke. Say he was in fact a reincarnated Plagius or Sidious - canon does include the fact that the Sith lord had learned how to create life - then you can't reveal that prior to killing him off. (Plus it's also in Canon that cutting a Sith Lord in half doesn't kill them - Vader & Maul)

I think it's very unlikely but if you did want a twist in 9 (really this is the only thing that stands out at this point with the way 8 ended) then this is probably the way to do it.

Snoke comes back. Reveals that he has transcended Sith or Jedi, able to bring himself back from the dead, and now has a bone to pick with Rey & Kylo. Those two have to work together to defeat this bigger/badder enemy - which leads to the true balance of the force - it's not about one side winning but it's about the darkness and light working together to defeat a greater evil.

Would also kind of tie back to what was never really elaborated on between Finn & Benicio Del Toro characters. About how it's not as clear as resistance vs. Empire with one side being clearly bad. There is more to it than that. Some of what Luke was saying also hinted at in this movie.

I like this theory and think it could be played out quite well. Good pick up on how the Benicio Del Toro morality tale would tie into it to.