05-14-2020, 12:24 PM
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#261
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
It doesn't switch at all. It's still a need, but now it also carries a benefit of much needed stimulus to the local economy for construction.
FWIW, the original C-Train lines were also built during a major recession. If we applied that thinking then, It is quite possible we'd have NO LRT system at all today rather than one of the busiest in North America.
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However a large reason it’s an LRT and not a BRT was that federal dollars required it to be one.
Last edited by GGG; 05-14-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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05-14-2020, 03:05 PM
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#262
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackArcher101
How is this project funding still even being entertained?
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The funding from the Province and Canada is still in place (though the Provincial payout is now more backloaded), the City's probably afraid that if they don't use it, they'll lose it. And the City's share of the costs ($52M/year for capital and $23.7M/year for financing) has already been penciled into the budget till 2044.
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05-14-2020, 03:35 PM
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#263
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Loves Teh Chat!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackArcher101
How is this project funding still even being entertained? I really wanted this line as I live in the SE, but now I don't see how this line can be viable. We need to revisit if we need another downtown feeder during the next 10 years, and with massive government debts coming up, is this the best use of money? Are costs expected to decrease at all in the new economy we'll be heading into?
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Because the City is thinking longer term than the current pandemic.
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05-14-2020, 04:45 PM
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#264
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torture
Because the City is thinking longer term than the current pandemic.
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But not far enough to realize that self driving cars will be here soon and a BRT could probably be more effective and less expensive.
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05-14-2020, 05:04 PM
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#265
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Franchise Player
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Self-driving cars doesn't solve parking though. And I think it will be quite some time until that critical mass is achieved to plan around it.
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05-14-2020, 06:55 PM
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#266
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Voted for Kodos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
But not far enough to realize that self driving cars will be here soon and a BRT could probably be more effective and less expensive.
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Self driving cars may solve other issues, but they aren’t capable of replacing mass transit. Cars with single occupants take up too much space.
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05-14-2020, 07:14 PM
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#267
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tromboner
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen
Self-driving cars doesn't solve parking though.
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Unless it drives home or out of downtown and parks. Also downtown parking is deliberately constrained. The city could allow more parking downtown if it wanted to (albeit it might take another boom for the required construction to occur).
Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed
Self driving cars may solve other issues, but they aren’t capable of replacing mass transit. Cars with single occupants take up too much space.
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Stopping space could be reduced though, so they could at least ease some strain on transit.
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05-14-2020, 08:33 PM
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#268
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed
Self driving cars may solve other issues, but they aren’t capable of replacing mass transit. Cars with single occupants take up too much space.
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True, but it may change the nature of it.
Do we need to run 100 passenger busses 18 hours a day, when they are only used to that capacity for 4 of those hours? Or would efficiencies be achieved by transitioning to a bigger fleet of ~40 passenger AV’s - even more frequency at rush hours (if not all hours), and reduced operating expenses
It’s unlikely to affect train lines with the ridership to justify them, but that probably doesn’t apply to the SE leg (at least until it gets to the communities).
Between O&G and Covid, the demand for transit (especially to downtown) may become very different, too.
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05-14-2020, 08:37 PM
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#269
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Voted for Kodos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
True, but it may change the nature of it.
Do we need to run 100 passenger busses 18 hours a day, when they are only used to that capacity for 4 of those hours? Or would efficiencies be achieved by transitioning to a bigger fleet of ~40 passenger AV’s - even more frequency at rush hours (if not all hours), and reduced operating expenses
It’s unlikely to affect train lines with the ridership to justify them, but that probably doesn’t apply to the SE leg (at least until it gets to the communities).
Between O&G and Covid, the demand for transit (especially to downtown) may become very different, too.
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The Green line connects a lot of things that aren’t downtown too.
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05-15-2020, 09:00 AM
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#270
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Loves Teh Chat!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
But not far enough to realize that self driving cars will be here soon and a BRT could probably be more effective and less expensive.
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Not everyone can afford a car that they have to drive, never mind one that drives itself.
Also, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have much faith in a city council that said "you know what, we're not going to do anything, let's just wait for self driving cars, they'll fix all our problems for us." I mean, why do anything today when future technologies will solve all our problems?
P.S. Self Driving cars are supposed to be here...when exactly? The Guardian predicted we'd all be in self driving cars by 2015. Business Insider predicted 2020, and I don't see many of them on the road. We're just supposed to wait I suppose?
Quote:
A year ago, Detroit and Silicon Valley had visions of putting thousands of self-driving taxis on the road in 2019, ushering in an age of driverless cars.
Most of those cars have yet to arrive — and it is likely to be years before they do. Several carmakers and technology companies have concluded that making autonomous vehicles is going to be harder, slower and costlier than they thought.
“We overestimated the arrival of autonomous vehicles,” Ford’s chief executive, Jim Hackett, said at the Detroit Economic Club in April.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/b...mous-cars.html
Hmm. Seems like a good bet. Cancel the Green Line, let's put all the money into TSLA instead!
Last edited by Torture; 05-15-2020 at 09:22 AM.
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05-15-2020, 11:18 AM
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#271
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Franchise Player
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The addition of the 9th Avenue North station is welcomed, it would be a mistake not to have one. The other recommended change I really like is to the portal where the line emerges from underground at Second Ave. Looks like they have shifted it slightly west and slightly north, result being the line is not on the street anymore and not quite as obtrusive as it exits the ground. I really like this change.
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05-15-2020, 04:25 PM
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#273
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First Line Centre
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"Self-driving cars" is a silly idea that only gullible people believe will be a panacea. We still have morning and afternoon rushes when people go to and from work, and self-driving cars will solve nothing about that. Self-driving cars take up as much space as regular cars, you still have to park them somewhere when they're not in use, and our road capacity will still be the limiting factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC
Unless it drives home or out of downtown and parks. Also downtown parking is deliberately constrained. The city could allow more parking downtown if it wanted to (albeit it might take another boom for the required construction to occur).
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This is precisely why it's preposterous to think self-driving cars will appreciably improve traffic. "Unless it drives home or out of downtown and parks" itself? Congrats, you doubled the traffic as self-driving cars bring their owners to work and drive themselves home, and then do the same thing in the afternoon to fetch their owners and bring them home.
Parking downtown is deliberately constrained because our road network is constrained. It's about encouraging people to take another mode of transportation because we can't afford to keep expanding our roads to accommodate more and more vehicular traffic. It takes up too much physical space and it costs a fortune.
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05-15-2020, 06:39 PM
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#274
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
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Man, that Centre St. stuff is making our decision to buy a house in the SW look like a slam dunk win now.
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GO FLAMES GO.
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05-15-2020, 07:59 PM
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#276
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Scoring Winger
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And who cares what conditions the feds put on the money. Go back and tell them it’s BRT and our city is being decimated so you better stand by the funding. What is Trudeau going to do, say no? This is the absolute best time to revise to a more sensible and cautious approach.
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05-15-2020, 09:56 PM
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#277
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Loves Teh Chat!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
Man, that Centre St. stuff is making our decision to buy a house in the SW look like a slam dunk win now.
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Cause Macleod and Crowchild are such a dream to drive?
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05-15-2020, 11:07 PM
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#278
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torture
Cause Macleod and Crowchild are such a dream to drive?
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Is the goal of all this construction to regress? Sure feels like it.
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05-16-2020, 09:24 AM
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#279
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
Is the goal of all this construction to regress? Sure feels like it.
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Calgary Transit Green Line, sponsored by the Calgary Puck ongoing c-train vs car thread
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05-16-2020, 10:25 AM
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#280
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morgin
And who cares what conditions the feds put on the money. Go back and tell them it’s BRT and our city is being decimated so you better stand by the funding. What is Trudeau going to do, say no? This is the absolute best time to revise to a more sensible and cautious approach.
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This is my thought, too. We are likely to get some other infrastructure spending soon - roll this [re]commitment into that and make it a win-win for everybody.
I come back to the new maintenance facility at Shepherd Crossing - I think we are seeing some combo of sunk-cost-fallacy (at least in terms of the planning time) and vested interests (ie. conflict of interest) that are keeping this boondoggle proceeding with little critical thought regarding changing conditions.
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