2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors v2

[Demetric]

That should make him cheap

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[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by heep223

Your views on Hamonic vs. Hamilton are legitimate as your opinion and as a debate.

The thing that really I disagree with was your assertion that Hamilton is the 5th best dman on the team. When you make a comment like that you better be prepared to defend it. It's ok to just admit that you were looking at things overly simplistically by looking at one TOI stat and then appealing to authority as your entire argument.

BTW, a Norris-calibre defenseman is one that received Norris votes in spite of missing the last 20 games of the year. He was a shoe-in for the trophy until he got hurt.

I hate to drag this debate on forever but I think your argument is a little too simplistic. Gio is is great defenseman and leader but he is not "Norris calibre", which is just a made up term anyway. He has not won the award nor been nominated for the award. He had a superb 65 game season last year, no doubt about it. A shoo in for the award? We'll never know. One of the better defenseman in the league but I think it's unlikely he ever wins or gets nominated for the award.

As for Hamilton being 5th best defenseman on the team, my point was simply that is how we was played this year. The coaching staff had more confidence in 4 other players. I am sure you will argue about his point total, which is more simplistic argument than TOI. Do I think he should have played more than Wideman? Sure especially based on how the season turned out. But I will say it again, focusing on current play vs. potential, Hamilton still has a ways to go. He can make very bad plays in his own zone and he doesn't seem particularly tough to play against yet. Does he look great for a 22 year old? Absolutely.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Gio is is great defenseman and leader but he is not "Norris calibre", which is just a made up term anyway. He has not won the award nor been nominated for the award. He had a superb 65 game season last year, no doubt about it. A shoo in for the award? We'll never know. One of the better defenseman in the league but I think it's unlikely he ever wins or gets nominated for the award.

He came pretty darn close last season. Came in 6th amongst all defencemen.

Norris Trophy

2014-2015 Norris Trophy Voting
Pts. 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th
1. Erik Karlsson, OTT 964 (44-42-33-19-8)
2. Drew Doughty, LAK 889 (53-30-20-13-10)
3. P.K. Subban, MTL 801 (24-36-38-37-8)
4. Shea Weber, NSH 614 (26-19-28-20-21)
5. Roman Josi, NSH 222 (3-9-11-17-23)
6. Mark Giordano, CGY 177 (1-6-11-15-25)
7. Duncan Keith, CHI 134 (1-7-4-12-19)

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I hate to drag this debate on forever but I think your argument is a little too simplistic. Gio is is great defenseman and leader but he is not "Norris calibre", which is just a made up term anyway. He has not won the award nor been nominated for the award. He had a superb 65 game season last year, no doubt about it. A shoo in for the award? We'll never know. One of the better defenseman in the league but I think it's unlikely he ever wins or gets nominated for the award.



As for Hamilton being 5th best defenseman on the team, my point was simply that is how we was played this year. The coaching staff had more confidence in 4 other players. I am sure you will argue about his point total, which is more simplistic argument than TOI. Do I think he should have played more than Wideman? Sure especially based on how the season turned out. But I will say it again, focusing on current play vs. potential, Hamilton still has a ways to go. He can make very bad plays in his own zone and he doesn't seem particularly tough to play against yet. Does he look great for a 22 year old? Absolutely.

But I didn't just look at points. I looked at points, shot attempt differentials and scoring chance differentials.

How could you possibly argue that assessing a player based on points, shot attempt differential and scoring chance differential is more simplistic than TOI?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Strange Brew makes Strange Posts

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by heep223

But I didn't just look at points. I looked at points, shot attempt differentials and scoring chance differentials.

How could you possibly argue that assessing a player based on points, shot attempt differential and scoring chance differential is more simplistic than TOI?

I missed your in depth analysis. I guess you believe that Hamilton was criminally underplayed this year?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I missed your in depth analysis. I guess you believe that Hamilton was criminally underplayed this year?

In some situations absolutely

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Things change over the course of a season. Average time on ice for the season can be misleading because of that.

As for Hamilton he was overplayed early while he was struggling. Then underplayed later once he had adapted and we were healthy. He was underplayed on the powerplay when Wideman wasn't suspended. Now he's settled into the range you'd expect him to be at.

Hamilton is our #3 dman right now and he'll be our #3 dman next year. Wideman will likely be gone and Russell is gone. Hamilton is not our #5 dman, anybody who thinks that isn't really looking at everything in context.

[heep223]

@strange brew Look back a few pages. I think you replied to it.

He was tested early to see if he could handle first pairing minutes off the hop and couldn't. It didn't help that Gio was so rusty. Then he stepped back and slowly was eased into a role of increasing importance. He is the third best dman on a team that got sunk by their goaltending.

Listen Hamilton has made some big mistakes and has his warts. But he'd be a first pairing guy on most teams.

Let's just move on at this point we've derailed this thread.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by heep223

@strange brew Look back a few pages. I think you replied to it.

He was tested early to see if he could handle first pairing minutes off the hop and couldn't. It didn't help that Gio was so rusty. Then he stepped back and slowly was eased into a role of increasing importance. He is the third best dman on a team that got sunk by their goaltending.

Listen Hamilton has made some big mistakes and has his warts. But he'd be a first pairing guy on most teams.

Let's just move on at this point we've derailed this thread.

I was with you until you said he would be first pairing on most teams. Not based on his play this year. Not on a good team. Hopefully one day. I sincerely hope your assessment turns out to be accurate next year.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Strange Brew makes Strange Posts

Possibly as a result of drinking a strange brew...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I was with you until you said he would be first pairing on most teams. Not based on his play this year. Not on a good team. Hopefully one day. I sincerely hope your assessment turns out to be accurate next year.

Agreed. Hamilton is not defensively sound enough to be a first pairing defenceman on a good team. That will probably come in time.

[Enoch Root]

So let's say Vancouver pulls 2nd in the draft lottery and the Flames retain their 5th spot...

Would the Flames offer Jankowski to move up? Would the Nucks do it?

The Canucks need Cs. Well okay, they need everything. But if they can't get Matthews, would they be willing to trade down to walk away with Chychrun and Jankowski?

I think it's a lot to pay. The only reason I would do it is that Laine is exactly what the Flames need.

Thoughts?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So let's say Vancouver pulls 2nd in the draft lottery and the Flames retain their 5th spot...

Would the Flames offer Jankowski to move up? Would the Nucks do it?

The Canucks need Cs. Well okay, they need everything. But if they can't get Matthews, would they be willing to trade down to walk away with Chychrun and Jankowski?

I think it's a lot to pay. The only reason I would do it is that Laine is exactly what the Flames need.

Thoughts?

I would do that in a heart beat. I would also offer our #35 OA as a sweetener if need be.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So let's say Vancouver pulls 2nd in the draft lottery and the Flames retain their 5th spot...

Would the Flames offer Jankowski to move up? Would the Nucks do it?

The Canucks need Cs. Well okay, they need everything. But if they can't get Matthews, would they be willing to trade down to walk away with Chychrun and Jankowski?

I think it's a lot to pay. The only reason I would do it is that Laine is exactly what the Flames need.

Thoughts?

I don't think Jankowski is enough to move up from 5th to 2nd. I don't see the Canucks trading out of their pick especially after what's been a miserable season for them.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So let's say Vancouver pulls 2nd in the draft lottery and the Flames retain their 5th spot...

Would the Flames offer Jankowski to move up? Would the Nucks do it?

The Canucks need Cs. Well okay, they need everything. But if they can't get Matthews, would they be willing to trade down to walk away with Chychrun and Jankowski?

I think it's a lot to pay. The only reason I would do it is that Laine is exactly what the Flames need.

Thoughts?

What team in earth would take Chychrun and Jankowski over Laine? Not many I'd imagine. Vancouver needs stars of all positions, not complimentary pieces.

[JohnnyT]

Not trade but rumour per @stevesilva on Twitter that Providence Friars coach Nate Leaman will replace Claude Julien.

https://twitter.com/stevesilva/statu...88508049588224

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

Not trade but rumour per @stevesilva on Twitter that Providence Friars coach Nate Leaman will replace Claude Julien.

https://twitter.com/stevesilva/statu...88508049588224

Damn. I would have loved to see Leeman coach the Flames. One of the best Xs and Os guys around. His teams are seldom ill-prepared or out-coached.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by New Era

Damn. I would have loved to see Leeman coach the Flames. One of the best Xs and Os guys around. His teams are seldom ill-prepared or out-coached.

I think people would hate his boring defense first coaching style. Plus it's a lot different coaching pros than college guys. Who knows how well he would adapt to the NHL.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fire

I think people would hate his boring defense first coaching style. Plus it's a lot different coaching pros than college guys. Who knows how well he would adapt to the NHL.

You make Leaman sound like Jacques Lemaire. His style is different from Hartley but I would describe his style as

- Reliance on quick puck-moving defensemen to win races and get pucks out before the other team sets up. Little reliance on Engelland/Smid types.
- Controlled 3-5 man breakouts emphasizing player movement and lateral passes
- Centers covering for their defensemen in the D-zone
- aggressive 2 winger forecheck with the center being in position to race back defensively but also make quick plays off turnovers
- Forwards covering aggressively for their defensemen in the O-zone as D have the green light to jump up
- Short shifts, whether PK, PP, or 5v5. No one overstays their ice-time (no "star-treatment")

I'm no systems expert but it resembles plenty of NHL systems on a basic level, though I'm sure there are fine details to tweak for the level of play. If it's a low-individual scoring system it's because he rolls four lines and those wingers are pretty much grinders. But as a team the Friars have become an offensive powerhouse since he got there. The year before he got there, the Friars avged 2.21 goals a game, last season they averaged 3.00 goals per game. He didn't have superstar recruiting either.

The Flyers coach was an NCAA coach a year ago and he seems to be doing just fine with a taking a team with a rookie #1D to the playoffs