High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, that's sort of new to me, but based on the shocked Pikachu reactions from people admonishing this dude for going after young women I can't disagree with you.

I'd consider myself in the camp of finding 18-21 year olds as being unappealingly young and I've regarded them that way for a decade or two.

We have to be at the point where we need to be writing some new social rules down and disseminating them. There are a lot of people, I'm sure, who would avoid certain behaviours if they knew they were now faux paus.

Am I taking crazy pills or something here where I thought a 21 year old woman was fair game for a man in his 30s? Some raised eyebrows seem appropriate. Maybe a finger wave and a tsk tsk, 'you dirty dog' kind of treatment for him, but a grand public shaming? Seems like a sledgehammer response to me.

This isn’t about the age of the people. It’s about his actions. Like if I start sending you a bunch of dick picks that is probably not okay. We don’t need new norms that unsolicited dick picks is not okay or that unsolicited crotch grabs are not okay.

Why do you want to minimize his actions?

Half your age plus 7 has been the generic age rule for not discusting. 30 -> 22, 40 -> 27. It works for every age.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

This isn’t about the age of the people. It’s about his actions. Like if I start sending you a bunch of dick picks that is probably not okay. We don’t need new norms that unsolicited dick picks is not okay or that unsolicited crotch grabs are not okay.

Why do you want to minimize his actions?

Half your age plus 7 has been the generic age rule for not discusting. 30 -> 22, 40 -> 27. It works for every age.

I'm not minimizing his actions so much as the public is maximizing his actions IMO.

Guys send dick pics all the time. They seem to never be appreciated by the recipients, but these kind of guys persist. I just thought it was a normal thing sexually awkward weird dudes did and I didn't know it was such a big deal that the media would write stories about it and guys on CalgaryPuck would get concerned for the wellbeing of the women receiving them.

If my daughter received a dick pic, I'd advise her to block the guy and I think we'd both have a good laugh at how pathetic the guy was and that'd be that.

I'm sure she'll receive some. She's 16.5 right now and it looks like there aren't many girls that are spared from being sent a dick pic or two. Maybe it's more traumatic than I'm understanding and I'm sure she'll tell me if it is, in which case I'll learn from it. As it sits now, though, I give women more credit for being able to emotionally handle receiving a dick pic than you guys do, I guess.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

This isn’t about the age of the people. It’s about his actions. Like if I start sending you a bunch of dick picks that is probably not okay. We don’t need new norms that unsolicited dick picks is not okay or that unsolicited crotch grabs are not okay.

Why do you want to minimize his actions?

Half your age plus 7 has been the generic age rule for not discusting. 30 -> 22, 40 -> 27. It works for every age.

Send away. I'll literally find it hilarious and I'll send them to my friends just to fata with them (I'll keep your info private, though, not to worry).

[81MC]

Man I’m torn on Slivers take. I agree that women are more empowered and emotionally strong than to be harmed by an unsolicited dick pic. On the other hand, an unsolicited dick pic is modern day flashing, except arguably worse for invading ones private space, and should be akin to sexual harassment.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not minimizing his actions so much as the public is maximizing his actions IMO.

Guys send dick pics all the time. They seem to never be appreciated by the recipients, but these kind of guys persist. I just thought it was a normal thing sexually awkward weird dudes did and I didn't know it was such a big deal that the media would write stories about it and guys on CalgaryPuck would get concerned for the wellbeing of the women receiving them.

If my daughter received a dick pic, I'd advise her to block the guy and I think we'd both have a good laugh at how pathetic the guy was and that'd be that.

I'm sure she'll receive some. She's 16.5 right now and it looks like there aren't many girls that are spared from being sent a dick pic or two. Maybe it's more traumatic than I'm understanding and I'm sure she'll tell me if it is, in which case I'll learn from it. As it sits now, though, I give women more credit for being able to emotionally handle receiving a dick pic than you guys do, I guess.

It’s not really concern for the well being of women but why should anyone have to put up with that crap? Like just don’t send a picture of your dick to a person who didn’t ask. That crap should be called out.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Man I’m torn on Slivers take. I agree that women are more empowered and emotionally strong than to be harmed by an unsolicited dick pic. On the other hand, an unsolicited dick pic is modern day flashing, except arguably worse for invading ones private space, and should be akin to sexual harassment.

I don't think it's harassment if it happens just once. And that's all it should happen - if it's not wanted just block the guy. Don't leave him with access to you at that point; not defending yourself would be weird and ridiculous.

If he starts chasing down your other accounts are circumventing your blockage with other numbers and stuff, then you're easily into harassment territory.

Anybody who has dated since the invention of smartphones want to chime in if a dick pic ever works. Like, are once in a while chicks like, 'nice dick, when can we meet?' or do they fail every time? Because if they work sometimes then maybe that's just how some guys operate now. If there were no takers ever it seems even more befuddling that guys keep sending them.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

It’s not really concern for the well being of women but why should anyone have to put up with that crap? Like just don’t send a picture of your dick to a person who didn’t ask. That crap should be called out.

Of course. But at the same time, BFD.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sliver

As it sits now, though, I give women more credit for being able to emotionally handle receiving a dick pic than you guys do, I guess.

Why don't you give men more credit for being able to emotionally handle having the fact that they send dick pics aired in public?

Why do you think it's fine for guys to send dick pics to girls of whatever age, but not ok for women to talk about it publicly?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why don't you give men more credit for being able to emotionally handle having the fact that they send dick pics aired in public?

Why do you think it's fine for guys to send dick pics to girls of whatever age, but not ok for women to talk about it publicly?

Remember apparently we are allowed to send one dick pic before its not OK.
But that first one - apparently fair game! Have at it boys!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why don't you give men more credit for being able to emotionally handle having the fact that they send dick pics aired in public?

Why do you think it's fine for guys to send dick pics to girls of whatever age, but not ok for women to talk about it publicly?

First of all, please tell me that was an honest misunderstanding on your part to suggest I think it's fine for a guy to send dick pics to "girls" of "whatever age". That's definitely not my perspective. I don't even think it's fine - I just think it's not a big deal - to send dick pics to women aged 18 or over. That's a major fataing distinction.

Sure they can talk about it, but why are they and why should we care? Seems strange to me.

'hai everyone, this guy is sexually awkward and I want the whole world to know!'

IDK, I don't think it needed broadcasting because - again - it's not a big deal and not particularly egregious IMO.

Not every woman is a master sexsmith with the best skills, moves and instincts, either, and I don't necessarily care to hear their missteps broadcast, either. Seems unnecessary to me.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Remember apparently we are allowed to send one dick pic before its not OK.
But that first one - apparently fair game! Have at it boys!

Give me a break, Jiri. I'm putting way too much effort into clearly explaining my perspective to have you saunter in to belittle it by deliberately misunderstanding my points.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Sliver

First of all, please tell me that was an honest misunderstanding on your part to suggest I think it's fine for a guy to send dick pics to "girls" of "whatever age". That's definitely not my perspective. I don't even think it's fine - I just think it's not a big deal - to send dick pics to women aged 18 or over. That's a major fataing distinction.

Sure they can talk about it, but why are they and why should we care? Seems strange to me.

'hai everyone, this guy is sexually awkward and I want the whole world to know!'

IDK, I don't think it needed broadcasting because - again - it's not a big deal and not particularly egregious IMO.

Not every woman is a master sexsmith with the best skills, moves and instincts, either, and I don't necessarily care to hear their missteps broadcast, either. Seems unnecessary to me.

You can deconstruct these allegations into their smallest individual parts (pun slightly intended) and handwave each away as NBD, but at what point does it become a pattern worthy of some condemnation?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sliver

First of all, please tell me that was an honest misunderstanding on your part to suggest I think it's fine for a guy to send dick pics to "girls" of "whatever age". That's definitely not my perspective. I don't even think it's fine - I just think it's not a big deal - to send dick pics to women aged 18 or over. That's a major fataing distinction.

Sure they can talk about it, but why are they and why should we care? Seems strange to me.

'hai everyone, this guy is sexually awkward and I want the whole world to know!'

IDK, I don't think it needed broadcasting because - again - it's not a big deal and not particularly egregious IMO.

Not every woman is a master sexsmith with the best skills, moves and instincts, either, and I don't necessarily care to hear their missteps broadcast, either. Seems unnecessary to me.

So a 16 year old boy is not allowed to send a dick pic to a 16 year old girl, but he is allowed to send one to an 18 year old even if he's then the minor in that situation? That seems entirely arbitrary. Why are you that put off by same-age minors sexting each other but think it's no big deal for a 35 year old to repeatedly send an 18 year old dick pics, to the point she has to block multiple numbers to avoid him?

Why do we care? I don't know. Why do we care about Win Butler in the first place? Why do we care about the people in Arcade Fire at all? Why do we care about the lives of celebrities? Big question, but considering how constant magazines like Vanity Fair, People, US Weekly, etc. have been at producing content for the last... I dunno... multiple decades... why are you asking me?

What makes this less relevant than anything else? You don't have to listen. You're saying you hadn't even heard of Arcade Fire before this, so why do YOU care? You didn't have to read the Pitchfork article but (I'm assuming) you did... about someone you hadn't heard about. So why did you care enough to do that?

[powderjunkie]

Listen guys, getting cancelled over dick pics is no joke. Look at Brett Favre...he lost none of the money he earned playing football from his scandal and now he's had to resort to a welfare fraud scheme

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...neve-rcna45871

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So a 16 year old boy is not allowed to send a dick pic to a 16 year old girl, but he is allowed to send one to an 18 year old even if he's then the minor in that situation? That seems entirely arbitrary. Why are you that put off by same-age minors sexting each other but think it's no big deal for a 35 year old to repeatedly send an 18 year old dick pics, to the point she has to block multiple numbers to avoid him?

A 16 year-old sending dick pics to anybody regardless of age sounds illegal to me. Like, pretty sure you can't distribute your own child porn.

Is the age thing arbitrary? Somewhat, I guess, but I think at certain ages it's fairly well defined with the law. Fortunately, I've never had to dance on that line so I don't know the ins and outs of this type of stuff for minors.

I don't think it's okay to repeatedly send dick pics to an 18-year-old after she has blocked you. That's harassment. I've said as much. Was Win doing that? If so, yeah, that sounds like harassment. Did the chick go to the cops? That would be a logical step if you're being harassed.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why do we care? I don't know. Why do we care about Win Butler in the first place? Why do we care about the people in Arcade Fire at all? Why do we care about the lives of celebrities? Big question, but considering how constant magazines like Vanity Fair, People, US Weekly, etc. have been at producing content for the last... I dunno... multiple decades... why are you asking me?

What makes this less relevant than anything else? You don't have to listen. You're saying you hadn't even heard of Arcade Fire before this, so why do YOU care? You didn't have to read the Pitchfork article but (I'm assuming) you did... about someone you hadn't heard about. So why did you care enough to do that?

I just chimed in with my opinion that what I read didn't seem like a big deal and I've been explaining why I don't think it's a big deal. I'm discussing. We're on a discussion forum. I did the same thing with Louis CK. I didn't think that was a big deal. I thought Aziz Ansari was slammed unfairly. Some of the other stories about other celebrities have come out that have been dis-fataing-gusting and I think I've called those guys out (unless maybe other posters had the outrage covered and I, like, thanked them or something). But yeah, I'm not pro sexual abuse, don't worry.

So yeah, I'm just throwing my opinion into the conversation. I can - at the same time - care about the conversation and not care about Win or what he did.

[opendoor]

Just as a comparison, in 2020 a sound tech who had worked briefly for the Killers in 2009 made allegations that she believed that were was sexual assault/misconduct on the 2009 tour that she worked on involving a drunk female fan and the crew.

So what did the band do? They hired a law firm to conduct a formal investigation which included interviewing the sound tech who made the claim, tracking down the person that was claimed to have been assaulted (she wasn't the person who made the allegation) by going through the names from the guest list for that show from 11 years prior and then talking to them, and interviewing the band members/crew/security staff/etc. that were there that night to figure out what happened.

After all that, it was determined that an assault didn't take place, and that the sound tech who made the allegation had overheard other crew members (who had since been let go) boasting about sexually assaulting this person without realizing that they were making a tasteless joke.

So the band went through all that over what was a single allegation based on 2nd hand information. Sure, it's a bit easier when it's your crew being accused and not the band members, but that's how you respond to serious allegations. In Butler's case, he hired a crisis PR team (whose prior clients include Anthony Weiner and Ivanka Trump/Jared Kushner) and offered to put Pitchfork in contact with other women he had slept with as character witnesses.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Just as a comparison, in 2020 a sound tech who had worked briefly for the Killers in 2009 made allegations that she believed that were was sexual assault/misconduct on the 2009 tour that she worked on involving a drunk female fan and the crew.

So what did the band do? They hired a law firm to conduct a formal investigation which included interviewing the sound tech who made the claim, tracking down the person that was claimed to have been assaulted (she wasn't the person who made the allegation) by going through the names from the guest list for that show from 11 years prior and then talking to them, and interviewing the band members/crew/security staff/etc. that were there that night to figure out what happened.

After all that, it was determined that an assault didn't take place, and that the sound tech who made the allegation had overheard other crew members (who had since been let go) boasting about sexually assaulting this person without realizing that they were making a tasteless joke.

So the band went through all that over what was a single allegation based on 2nd hand information. Sure, it's a bit easier when it's your crew being accused and not the band members, but that's how you respond to serious allegations. In Butler's case, he hired a crisis PR team (whose prior clients include Anthony Weiner and Ivanka Trump/Jared Kushner) and offered to put Pitchfork in contact with other women he had slept with as character witnesses.

Definitely.

I don't find these allegations that serious, though, so it would be weird to hire a law firm to conduct an investigation into something nobody seems to claim is illegal.

[Johnny Makarov]

Less typing. More bunker building and dog killing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Give me a break, Jiri. I'm putting way too much effort into clearly explaining my perspective to have you saunter in to belittle it by deliberately misunderstanding my points.

I disagree strongly with your perspective and believe that your views are a big problem of what's wrong. You are minimizing actions that are sexual harassment and shouldn't be tolerated in any way shape or form.

So I'm giving those views the amount of respect I believe they deserve.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I disagree strongly with your perspective and believe that your views are a big problem of what's wrong. You are minimizing actions that are sexual harassment and shouldn't be tolerated in any way shape or form.

So I'm giving those views the amount of respect I believe they deserve.

Your views are a problem, too. Every accusation = the accused is wrong and needs to be publicly humiliated. The Aziz case is the perfect example. This one is worse than that, but from what we know so far, the fall out is not appropriate for the transgression IMO.

But anyway, I can see your side. It's fair. That my view is so perplexing to you that you'd call it a shtick is beyond closeminded and ridiculous. You should be mature enough to discuss nuance.