Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It would be really nice if some whack job would go out in a blaze of glory at the NRA's head office, if anyone should be gunned down like a dog it's that ####### Wayne Lapierre, I want the shooters camera phone footage of the ####### cowering behind a desk wetting himself as his well justified end comes.

I mean if your going to go postal you could at least do some good in the process.

I know that this is an emotional issue, but wishing death on anyone no matter how vile by murder to me strikes me as the wrong cord in any debate.

[Wormius]

^^ You might want to edit that. It comes off pretty threatening.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blueski

Yeah fair enough, wasn't that thought out. Cocealed carry though, if it was really difficult to get, courses, exams, etc etc. So maybe you'd have 3% of the population. Similar to the air marshal program. In any given public setting there would be responsible people actively armed. For the rest it would be illegal. Like a volunteer reserve of deputies.

I just don't see USA disarming without a civil war. They are too far down the path to simply ban all guns. Maybe something like this is the practical way forward.

Oh Christ no, America has enough trouble with recruiting and vetting deputies and training them properly and now your going to open the door to more volunteer deputies carrying their guns in public.

No thanks

The only way that I would want this to work is if its drawn from retired cops with exemplary records.

But I don't want Joe Yahoo writing an exam and taking a 3 days course walking around enforcing the law. At that point you might as well make it ok to arm every lowly security guard that took the 2 day guarding a retail store course.

This is as bad of an idea as having unprotected sex with strangers in Haiti

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I know that this is an emotional issue, but wishing death on anyone no matter how vile by murder to me strikes me as the wrong cord in any debate.

Probably but the man makes a living off the death of 30,000 Americans a year, Pablo Escobar was a saint by comparison.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Oh Christ no, America has enough trouble with recruiting and vetting deputies and training them properly and now your going to open the door to more volunteer deputies carrying their guns in public.

No thanks

The only way that I would want this to work is if its drawn from retired cops with exemplary records.

But I don't want Joe Yahoo writing an exam and taking a 3 days course walking around enforcing the law. At that point you might as well make it ok to arm every lowly security guard that took the 2 day guarding a retail store course.

This is as bad of an idea as having unprotected sex with strangers in Haiti

Lord, American police are so bad, did any one else see the cell phone footage of the deputy trying to calm the survivors down by telling them 'don't worry I'll take the first bullet!' as he was trying to lead them out of the building.

Thank god those guys were there and all but do they teach them nothing about appropriate interaction with the public!

[driveway]

Effectively disarming the populace of the US would be a multi-generational effort. Compared to, say, the process of getting women the vote, which ended up happening nationally in 1920, I'd say the gun-control issue is somewhere in the early 1800's.

You'd think that the last few years: Aurora, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, etc. etc. would have been the "Seneca Falls" of the gun control movement, but honestly, until the repeal of the 2nd Amendment becomes the singular focus of gun control advocates, the issue is mired in hopelessness.

Really, what you'd hope is that the #BlackLivesMatter movement would recognize that, while racism is certainly a huge problem in the relationship between police and blacks, that the issue of gun control, the prevalence of guns, the likelihood of police officers needing to face armed suspects, or enter into situations where people stand a significant chance of being armed is at least as responsible for the way police officers treat black Americans.

Similarly to how it was as abolitionists that early suffragettes became active, I hope that the energy being generated in liberal, progressive circles around racial acceptance and equality can be harnessed and turned towards the cause of reducing gun violence.

Again, the only long-term effective solution is repeal of the 2nd. Everything else is a waste of time and energy.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Probably but the man makes a living off the death of 30,000 Americans a year, Pablo Escobar was a saint by comparison.

I blame the American people as a whole for not standing up and speaking against a ridiculous amendment that was written before the invention of the bullet.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by T@T

I blame the American people as a whole for not standing up and speaking against a ridiculous amendment that was written before the invention of the bullet.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't pre-date bullets or firearms.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

It's their country and they can do anything they want to do. As a Canadian though you can do something...stop visiting till they make the change.

60+million people visit the US every year as tourists...18+million of those visits are by Canadians. Make up a hashtag about gun control/tourism bans till its changed, tweet it, and stop going. With the dollar the way it is you should be visiting Spain instead of California/Arizona anyway. Or just fly right over it to the Caribbean or Mexico.

That's easily said, but there are millions of Canadians and Americans who are relatives and to people who fall into that category, that's not an option.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Oh Christ no, America has enough trouble with recruiting and vetting deputies and training them properly and now your going to open the door to more volunteer deputies carrying their guns in public.

No thanks

The only way that I would want this to work is if its drawn from retired cops with exemplary records.

But I don't want Joe Yahoo writing an exam and taking a 3 days course walking around enforcing the law. At that point you might as well make it ok to arm every lowly security guard that took the 2 day guarding a retail store course.

This is as bad of an idea as having unprotected sex with strangers in Haiti

Ok, then what if these marshals were only allowed to carry highly effective non lethal weapons? Phasers set on stun. I know this doesn't really exist yet, but it's not that far fetched.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by driveway

Effectively disarming the populace of the US would be a multi-generational effort. Compared to, say, the process of getting women the vote, which ended up happening nationally in 1920, I'd say the gun-control issue is somewhere in the early 1800's.

You'd think that the last few years: Aurora, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, etc. etc. would have been the "Seneca Falls" of the gun control movement, but honestly, until the repeal of the 2nd Amendment becomes the singular focus of gun control advocates, the issue is mired in hopelessness.

Really, what you'd hope is that the #BlackLivesMatter movement would recognize that, while racism is certainly a huge problem in the relationship between police and blacks, that the issue of gun control, the prevalence of guns, the likelihood of police officers needing to face armed suspects, or enter into situations where people stand a significant chance of being armed is at least as responsible for the way police officers treat black Americans.

Similarly to how it was as abolitionists that early suffragettes became active, I hope that the energy being generated in liberal, progressive circles around racial acceptance and equality can be harnessed and turned towards the cause of reducing gun violence.

Again, the only long-term effective solution is repeal of the 2nd. Everything else is a waste of time and energy.

Awful attitude and I could not disagree more. In fact, I will tell you that going that route will have a negative effect in my opinion.

[2Stonedbirds]

I'm thankful that in Canada we don't have a gun problem. Our gun culture is vastly different, not once have I looked at my firearms and thought "man that's a kick ass weapon that I can use to set someone straight." I look at them and see a tool for varmint control, a tool to harvest game to fill my freezer, and a tool to relax and see how small a group I can shoot on paper or steel or what kind of score I can shoot.

This comes from my upbringing being around firearms, how respect and personally responsibility was instilled from a very young age. Thankful that my experience is common in this country and the vast majority of firearm owners think and act the same way.

As it's been discussed at length here many times before, the gun culture in the US needs to move in a different direction, economic despairity needs to be addressed; and to move forward with actual legislative change the 2nd amd will need to be repealed or modified with an actual effectual plan of enforcement.

That's it. Now I'm going to continue enjoying my pastime that is derived from my culture, my heritage, and continue doing so in a safe responsible manner. And encourage those interested in firearms to sign up for the PAL course, get licensed, and come out and enjoy one of Canada's largest participation sports with a very diverse demographic. We don't bite and welcome all. For those interested in firearms or if you would like to learn more about them, go to a range and shoot in a controlled environment. At the very least you will learn safe handling practices and hopefully have some fun too.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

I'm thankful that in Canada we don't have a gun problem. Our gun culture is vastly different, not once have I looked at my firearms and thought "man that's a kick ass weapon that I can use to set someone straight." I look at them and see a tool for varmint control, a tool to harvest game to fill my freezer, and a tool to relax and see how small a group I can shoot on paper or steel or what kind of score I can shoot.

This comes from my upbringing being around firearms, how respect and personally responsibility was instilled from a very young age. Thankful that my experience is common in this country and the vast majority of firearm owners think and act the same way.

As it's been discussed at length here many times before, the gun culture in the US needs to move in a different direction, economic despairity needs to be addressed; and to move forward with actual legislative change the 2nd amd will need to be repealed or modified with an actual effectual plan of enforcement.

That's it. Now I'm going to continue enjoying my pastime that is derived from my culture, my heritage, and continue doing so in a safe responsible manner. And encourage those interested in firearms to sign up for the PAL course, get licensed, and come out and enjoy one of Canada's largest participation sports with a very diverse demographic. We don't bite and welcome all. For those interested in firearms or if you would like to learn more about them, go to a range and shoot in a controlled environment. At the very least you will learn safe handling practices and hopefully have some fun too.

There are plenty of Americans who have had that same experience.

[2Stonedbirds]

I know and I've said that. But according to some pointing that out makes me responsible for what happened in California.

[sureLoss]

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
Breaking: investigators find #ISIS link to #sanbernardino shooting, wife pledged allegiance to #albaghdadi on FB during attack - sources

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
Breaking: investigators find #ISIS link to #sanbernardino shooting, wife pledged allegiance to #albaghdadi on FB during attack - sources

Not surprising, but certainly a long way away from ISIS actively planning or even suggesting this be done other than in some non-specific way.

[ernie]

Your "thoughts" should be about steps to take to stop this carnage. Your "prayers" should be for forgiveness if you do nothing - again.

- Sen. Chris Murphy.

Great response to all the GOP tweets etc. Murphy is the Senator for the constituency that contains Sandy Hook.


And the GOP then without even any discussion categorically opposes what Obama suggests because it's from Obama. I don't know if there is any way to fix this issue. It certainly isn't going to happen quickly. Many more sad events are going to happen. But god damnit at least take some baby steps. To not even pass things that an OVERWHELMING majority of americans approve of is ridiculous.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blueski

Ok, then what if these marshals were only allowed to carry highly effective non lethal weapons? Phasers set on stun. I know this doesn't really exist yet, but it's not that far fetched.

Still wouldn't be comfortable depending on the level of training and screening, and at that point in my mind they might as well go and become cops.

We don't need half trained yahoos with or without lethal weapons going around with the power to arrest and intimidate.

We don't need half trained yahoos some who will have a hero or Rambo complex getting in the way of actual police.

Citizens won't separate the police from the marshals when something goes wrong. Keep the volunteers to the fire department.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
Breaking: investigators find #ISIS link to #sanbernardino shooting, wife pledged allegiance to #albaghdadi on FB during attack - sources

Yeah no surprise there. I was watching CNN this morning and they had the family lawyers on there, and one was basically forwarding the notion that these two didn't do the shooting, that the wife weighed 90 pounds and the husband had no military training, and the only thing that we know is that their bodies were found handcuffed in the SUV.

If it wasn't so ludicris I would have felt like it was one of our resident conspiracy theorists.

Oh and only storm troopers can fire with such precision.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Not surprising, but certainly a long way away from ISIS actively planning or even suggesting this be done other than in some non-specific way.

They don't need plan stuff like this. Their most effective weapon is ideology, whereas Al Qaeda's was planning and covert operations. Why bother trying to setup terrorist cells around the world when you can simply broadcast your proclamations around the world via the internet, and let the ones who become brainwashed do all the dirty work?