Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Target shooting, competition, hunting, collecting, self defense (legal in Canada and the US).

As already pointed out, assault rifles are already classed as prohibited in Canada and near impossible to get in the US.

All activities which are destructive in one way or another, the violent death of an animal or the violent destruction of a target.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Minnie

They don't actually have the right, within the constructs of the original amendment. At least, according to this guy, anyway.

It's irrelevant though in a country where most people support giving every body a gun that wants one, all of the legal and practical pros and cons are pointless really as long as Americans are okay with 30,000 dead a year.

Again I find it ironic in a country that in all other respects is obsessed with safety, a few body bags come back from Iraq and support for a war disappears completely.

Less people died in 9/11 than were killed by guns in the same month in 2001 and yet the difference in response is nothing short of staggering, several trillion dollars spent, a fully mobilized military operation of several million men to defeat two countries.

Again, if there was public support, and I know there isn't, but if the U.S. applied the same response to 30,000 dead Americans due to guns that they did to 9/11 they could quite literally remove most guns from the U.S. a year or so.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by kermitology

All activities which are destructive in one way or another, the violent death of an animal or the violent destruction of a target.

Yes, punching holes in paper is "violent destruction" personified.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Yes, punching holes in paper is "violent destruction" personified.

Actually, this is literally true. What is the image on paper targets usually? The silhouette of a person.

[Wormius]

I don't really get how the current manufacture and circulation of guns is now in the states. Is there still active production? How can there not be enough guns in the world right now? It's not like all of these guns are some home brew thing. Isn't the government allowed to restrict the manufacture of guns and ammunition and limit them for military or law enforcement use only?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Actually, this is literally true. What is the image on paper targets usually? The silhouette of a person.

It is still shooting holes in paper.

I'm no gun owner and I'm just as sick of this all as anyone else, but shooting a gun at targets is actually a fun thing to do. The last time I did it the targets were images of goofy mutant rats and aliens.

I'm not saying it's harmless, but it's so far down the chart of "bad things about guns" that it seems kind of pointless to worry about it.

[Wormius]

Try archery. It's cheaper.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It is still shooting holes in paper.

I'm no gun owner and I'm just as sick of this all as anyone else, but shooting a gun at targets is actually a fun thing to do. The last time I did it the targets were images of goofy mutant rats and aliens.

I'm not saying it's harmless, but it's so far down the chart of "bad things about guns" that it seems kind of pointless to worry about it.

If all these people who love their target shooting want to open a gun club and keep their weapons there and destroy paper targets to their hearts' content, I'm all for it. Just keep the weapons at the club. If you're using them for a hobby and for sport, you don't need it at home.

And really, even in the security of a gun range of this nature, a young girl managed to kill her instructor because she wasn't properly able to control the weapon she was given. Because a very young girl should be handling automatic/semi-automatic weaponry. Because America.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Please tell me more about these daily terror attacks and how arming ourselves with guns shall help (if it ever gets that bad).

Yeah fair enough, wasn't that thought out. Cocealed carry though, if it was really difficult to get, courses, exams, etc etc. So maybe you'd have 3% of the population. Similar to the air marshal program. In any given public setting there would be responsible people actively armed. For the rest it would be illegal. Like a volunteer reserve of deputies.

I just don't see USA disarming without a civil war. They are too far down the path to simply ban all guns. Maybe something like this is the practical way forward.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I don't really get how the current manufacture and circulation of guns is now in the states. Is there still active production? How can there not be enough guns in the world right now? It's not like all of these guns are some home brew thing. Isn't the government allowed to restrict the manufacture of guns and ammunition and limit them for military or law enforcement use only?

Every time there is an incident like this sales and gun company stocks go way up. The public panics that gun laws will get stricter so they load up.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I don't really get how the current manufacture and circulation of guns is now in the states. Is there still active production? How can there not be enough guns in the world right now? It's not like all of these guns are some home brew thing. Isn't the government allowed to restrict the manufacture of guns and ammunition and limit them for military or law enforcement use only?

From Business Insider:
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-gu...-report-2015-7

In 2013, the most current statistics available, 10,884,792 guns were manufactured in the United States, a spike of more than 2 million over the previous year. (The count excludes guns manufactured for the US military.)

...

Overall, gun manufacturing has skyrocketed since 2009, the year Barack Obama — who has pushed for some limits on gun ownership — assumed the presidency.
In 2009, 5,555,818 guns were manufactured in the United States, a jump of more than 1 million over the previous year. Since then, gun manufacturing has nearly doubled.

Here's the table of gun production from the ATF report Business Insider is reporting on.

Spoiler!

Edit: WOW. Obama is the best thing that's ever happened to the gun industry. Take a look at the overall production numbers which are, on the whole, pretty flat from 1986-2007. 1988 and 1989 and a number of other years saw more guns manufactured than in 2007. 2008, Obama starts picking up steam in the election and gun-manufacturing starts to spike and has rocketed up every year since.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by blueski

Every time there is an incident like this sales and gun company stocks go way up. The public panics that gun laws will get stricter so they load up.

If the government fears it has no ability to limit the sale of guns, why doesn't it just shut the doors on the manufacture. At least plug one hole.

It's kind of pie in the sky stuff, but Bill Gates or Zuckerberg have enough wealth to buy these companies out, give the employees enough to never want to work again, and be done with this.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If the government fears it has no ability to limit the sale of guns, why doesn't it just shut the doors on the manufacture. At least plug one hole.

It's kind of pie in the sky stuff, but Bill Gates or Zuckerberg have enough wealth to buy these companies out, give the employees enough to never want to work again, and be done with this.

And then those employees get rich making something the public wants...

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If the government fears it has no ability to limit the sale of guns, why doesn't it just shut the doors on the manufacture. At least plug one hole.

If government tried to do this, the manufacturers would sue on 2nd amendment grounds and win easily.

This is why repeal of the 2nd and eventual confiscation is the only real long-term solution.

[Wormius]

Forgive my ignorance, how is shutting down manufacturing and sales from gun / ammo manufacturers a 2nd amendment issue? It's not prohibiting people from owning guns. It's just stemming the flow of new guns, at least as a stop gap measure until real 2nd amendment reform can be enacted.

[irrevocable]

Poverty, class warfare, hopelessness.. continuing and abundant mental illness. Yeah, America is right ####ed.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Forgive my ignorance, how is shutting down manufacturing and sales from gun / ammo manufacturers a 2nd amendment issue? It's not prohibiting people from owning guns. It's just stemming the flow of new guns, at least as a stop gap measure until real 2nd amendment reform can be enacted.

All laws are subject to the constitution including the second amendment. A law prohibiting the manufacturing of guns would infringe on that right as it would be a restriction for gun purchasers, manufacturers, etc.

Having studied and practiced law, lived in and having been indirectly involved with the NRA and gun advocacy, I strongly believe that gun issues in the states are not fixable. I thought this was the case but after Sandy Hook, I know it is.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

All laws are subject to the constitution including the second amendment. A law prohibiting the manufacturing of guns would infringe on that right as it would be a restriction for gun purchasers, manufacturers, etc.

Having studied and practiced law, lived in and having been indirectly involved with the NRA and gun advocacy, I strongly believe that gun issues in the states are not fixable. I thought this was the case but after Sandy Hook, I know it is.

Sadly accurate. I mean, in this country we've had an actual member of Congress shot in a mass shooting incident, and in a separate incident less than two years later, 20 grade school children were murdered--and nothing has changed.

Does a Supreme Court justice have to die? Does a prominent right winger's family need to be targeted? Is there actually anything awful enough that could make this country change something?

That said--a large number of Americans do support more stringent background checks and things of that nature. But the politicians who are supposed to be representing us are too busy pocketing money from the gun lobby, to the tune of nearly $30 million in 2014.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...the-gun-lobby/


One of the best things I saw last night was Igor Volsky quoting each Republican's "thoughts and prayers" and amending them to add in how much the NRA pumped into each politician's campaign.

http://observer.com/2015/12/journali...ter-sensation/


Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of screwed up gun-nuts in the US. But there are a lot of reasonable people who are in favor of stricter gun control measures, but lobbyists have a whole lot more money than do the rest of us.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Forgive my ignorance, how is shutting down manufacturing and sales from gun / ammo manufacturers a 2nd amendment issue? It's not prohibiting people from owning guns. It's just stemming the flow of new guns, at least as a stop gap measure until real 2nd amendment reform can be enacted.

The argument would be that a restriction on manufacturing would infringe on the rights of Americans to keep and bear arms.

It would be a similar argument to if the government announced an intention to close all Mosques. One could argue that the government isn't saying you can't be muslim, simply that you can't have a mosque. That case would lose pretty badly on 1st amendment grounds.

Likewise, a "you can't make guns but you're allowed to own them" law would fail on 2nd amendment grounds.

Hence why the amendment needs to be repealed if meaningful gun control is to be put in place.

[afc wimbledon]

It would be really nice if some whack job would go out in a blaze of glory at the NRA's head office, if anyone should be gunned down like a dog it's that ####### Wayne Lapierre, I want the shooters camera phone footage of the ####### cowering behind a desk wetting himself as his well justified end comes.

I mean if your going to go postal you could at least do some good in the process.

Edited so that no thinks I actually want anyone to get shot but Christ that man makes me want to vomit.