Different times, they still had Gaudreau and Tkachuk in their prime....guess your really sold on Huberdeau and Lindholm
I guess you missed the point. In the 2020-21 season Gaudreau and Tkachuk had pretty mediocre performances (and the season before wasn’t a lot better). So on the theory of “why would you come back with the same team” after a bad year, they should have tossed those guys.
After all, teams never improve after a bad year.
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Seguin and Benn have helped the Dallas Stars win seven playoff rounds since they’ve been on the team, and made it to at least the third round twice.
There are no guarantees, other than they for sure wouldn’t have won more without them.
Depends how you use that 20 million. And now they're on the back end of those deals where their production likely gets worse. That's where the risk is.
I guess you missed the point. In the 2020-21 season Gaudreau and Tkachuk had pretty mediocre performances (and the season before wasn’t a lot better). So on the theory of “why would you come back with the same team” after a bad year, they should have tossed those guys.
After all, teams never improve after a bad year.
I don’t think anyone thinks that signing Lindholm to an 8 year contract that kicks in next year and subsequently keeping him this year will hurt the team this year. If someone who is against this signing has made that argument I missed it. I think the general argument is that creating a retirement home for the later part of this decade and the early 2030’s will mean that those years will be super lean. But I think everyone conceded that signing these old guys could lead to use making the playoffs for say 2 of the next 4 years.
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One thing we're going to discover out of this Lindholm mess is who the insider is. Our two resident insiders have very different information on the Lindholm situation to the point where it would be impossible for the information to be accurate from both of them.
There were people on CP saying Tkachuk was overrated and you would never win with Gaudreau on your roster. Tkachuk, in particular, scored at a prorated 63-point pace in 2020-21. There were those who pooh-poohed the idea that he could be a point-per-game player, just as there are those who are convinced that Huberdeau is no better than a 55-point player from here on.
It's hindsight that makes the analogy look weak.
Tkachuk was a very young player likely still getting better.
Hubby has already reached his prime, the question is whether he's starting to regress slightly or greatly, with the answer likely in between.
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I don’t think anyone thinks that signing Lindholm to an 8 year contract that kicks in next year and subsequently keeping him this year will hurt the team this year. If someone who is against this signing has made that argument I missed it. I think the general argument is that creating a retirement home for the later part of this decade and the early 2030’s will mean that those years will be super lean. But I think everyone conceded that signing these old guys could lead to use making the playoffs for say 2 of the next 4 years.
I was responding to a post that expressly said that signing Lindholm (and not trading him) and thereby playing the same roster as last year (minus Toffoli and plus a kid or two) was ensuring a repeat of last season.
I was responding to a post that expressly said that signing Lindholm (and not trading him) and thereby playing the same roster as last year (minus Toffoli and plus a kid or two) was ensuring a repeat of last season.
Fair enough, I think that roster could be better, it could be worse or it could be the same. If all the players that had career years fall off (Zadorov, Backlund, Coleman, Dube) and the players who had off years don’t significantly improve they could be worse. If those players have good-great years again and the players who had terrible years have good years they could be better and if some combination of players having good years and players having bad years happens they could have a similar result.
One thing we're going to discover out of this Lindholm mess is who the insider is. Our two resident insiders have very different information on the Lindholm situation to the point where it would be impossible for the information to be accurate from both of them.
Or ...
They have accurate sources but from different sides of the negotiation with different opinions on the progress and the sticking points, and a different message that they're trying to get out.
The result won't definitively prove anything about either "insider".
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Fair enough, I think that roster could be better, it could be worse or it could be the same. If all the players that had career years fall off (Zadorov, Backlund, Coleman, Dube) and the players who had off years don’t significantly improve they could be worse. If those players have good-great years again and the players who had terrible years have good years they could be better and if some combination of players having good years and players having bad years happens they could have a similar result.
Backlund - everyone keeps predicting a fall off for him every year. One day it will happen. But it hasn’t yet. I don’t see why Dube or Zadorov will decline. And Coleman didn’t have a career year. His last years in NJ and TB were much better. But he’s not a real up and down guy to begin with.
The guys that had good years last year had marginally better years than before. The guys who had bad years (Markstrom/Huberdeau especially) were much worse than their averages. So all things being equal, I think they play better.
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They have accurate sources but from different sides of the negotiation with different opinions on the progress and the sticking points, and a different message that they're trying to get out.
The result won't definitively prove anything about either "insider".
Not to mention things change. Minds change. Circumstances change. Something communicated to someone last week could be 100% true last week, but be 100% false this week.
Just because the contract turns bad doesn’t mean Calgary will get a great pick. They may simply keep picking in the middle.
But if you keep picking in the middle then some of these guys must still be playing well. Hopefully if they have a bunch of old guys at the end of their careers still playing decent hockey they could make a trade to get rid of someone and then pick higher in the draft.
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Not to mention things change. Minds change. Circumstances change. Something communicated to someone last week could be 100% true last week, but be 100% false this week.
Not sure why some work so hard to prove insiders wrong.
I've just seen a really good summary of contracts comparable to Lindholm's. It projects an $8.74M extension. It was written in June, so hopefully I'm not posting old information.
Last edited by gvitaly; 09-15-2023 at 04:57 PM.
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Of the 6 guys that we're talking about, whether they're gonna come or go. I think you would rank them 1[Hanifin] and 2[Lindholm] for sure, of guys who I don't think will be here past the trade deadline
He also mentions that he thinks that now that Backlund is back in town, he would notice how much lighter the atmosphere is. Thinks that Backlund will come to the realization that his last ~3 years in the league should probably be with the Flames.
He predicts that Backlund is going to stay. They further speculate on a combined press conference handing Backlund the 'C' and announcing an extension with the Flames. Steinberg adds that his sources in the organization all point to Backlund's desire to win with the Flames.
Last edited by gvitaly; 09-15-2023 at 06:40 PM.
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If Backlund wants to stick around, I’d trade Lindholm then. Between Kadri and Backlund we have two years to hope for Dube/Zary/other to fill in the center position. Add in the cap space and return for Lindholm that’s what I’d like.
