Explosion at the Boston Marathon

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Dion

Wishing to inflict pain and suffering on the person (and eye for an eye) who has harmed you makes you no better as a person. To me that's vengenance and something you would see in 3rd world countires like the Middle East. Most of the civilized world does not seek revenge but rather justice for what has been done.

It may not make you a better person, but frankly you're naïve if you think that any random first world person (since you inferred we are morally superior to third world citizens) wouldn't inflict pain or suffering on another individual if said individual harmed or killed their family/close friend.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Dion

Wishing to inflict pain and suffering on the person (and eye for an eye) who has harmed you makes you no better as a person. To me that's vengenance and something you would see in 3rd world countires like the Middle East. Beheadings, stonings, hangings etc. Most of the civilized world does not seek revenge but rather justice for what has been done.

Furthermore, what is justice in your eyes? Life in prison? That may be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment in some eyes. Does the state hold final say in what constitutes this? If so, must you always conform with what the state rules or risk being a hypocrite?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

It may not make you a better person, but frankly you're naïve if you think that any random first world person (since you inferred we are morally superior to third world citizens) wouldn't inflict pain or suffering on another individual if said individual harmed or killed their family/close friend.

It's one thing to think of harming someone but to actually do it is another. Imagine a world where everyone decided to take justice into their own hands?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Furthermore, what is justice in your eyes? Life in prison? That may be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment in some eyes. Does the state hold final say in what constitutes this? If so, must you always conform with what the state rules or risk being a hypocrite?

I don't consider the death penalty to be justice.

Further to the above i've heard some say that the death penalty is an easy way out. And with any death penalty there is the usuall appeals after appeals the give no closure to the affected person/persons.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

It may not make you a better person, but frankly you're naïve if you think that any random first world person (since you inferred we are morally superior to third world citizens) wouldn't inflict pain or suffering on another individual if said individual harmed or killed their family/close friend.

So more closer to the point, who in this thread that is wishing to inflict pain on this guy can honestly claim that they or their family were harmed by this guy? It sounds like more of this white knight / sjw stuff.

[CaptainCrunch]

I preferred life in prison for this person, A life in a 8x10 cell with no possibility of life outside of those walls would ensure that he would quickly fade from view.

I don't oppose the death penalty especially in this case where they placed the bomb close to a child and were looking for maximum collateral damage. I make no confusion, this person and his brother were monsters, and hopefully if there is an afterlife they will be explaining their misdeeds and getting something far worse then a prison cell or a quick bullet.

I very much doubt that this death penalty will be overturned on appeal, they will do the usual, they'll appeal based on location of the trial, the make up of the jury, the judges instructions and finally ineffectual appeal. They'll argue that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment. They'll bring in psychiatrists that will say that he no longer understands his actions and therefore the punishment will mean nothing.

But at some point a few years down the road because the feds will try to fast track the appeals, he'll get to lie on a gurney and get to basically fall asleep and have his heart stopped.

But the biggest victims here will be the actual victims, who will follow the appeals processes and hear his name in the news every day as his date with execution gets closer.

But at the end of the day, there will be no 11:59 phone call from the President, and this painful drama will be drawn out as long as possible.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So more closer to the point, who in this thread that is wishing to inflict pain on this guy can honestly claim that they or their family were harmed by this guy? It sounds like more of this white knight / sjw stuff.

Originally Posted by Dion

Wishing to inflict pain and suffering on the person (and eye for an eye) who has harmed you makes you no better as a person. To me that's vengenance and something you would see in 3rd world countires like the Middle East. Beheadings, stonings, hangings etc. Most of the civilized world does not seek revenge but rather justice for what has been done.

I'm fairly certain that the last thing any person who has had family killed/injured by this individual would do is post on CP to talk about it. However, if you would like to discuss who has said generalities about people's morality on the issue look no further than the above.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Dion

I don't consider the death penalty to be justice.

Further to the above i've heard some say that the death penalty is an easy way out. And with any death penalty there is the usuall appeals after appeals the give no closure to the affected person/persons.

You didn't answer my question.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Dion

It's one thing to think of harming someone but to actually do it is another. Imagine a world where everyone decided to take justice into their own hands?

Im not advocating for people to take the law into their own hands. I'm saying its very easy for someone to sit in their ivory tower and pass judgement on another for reacting in a particular manner given a particular circumstance that you may find reprehensible.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I'm fairly certain that the last thing any person who has had family killed/injured by this individual would do is post on CP to talk about it. However, if you would like to discuss who has said generalities about people's morality on the issue look no further than the above.

You mean below where Nage Waza expressed his generalities

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=2675

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Im not advocating for people to take the law into their own hands. I'm saying its very easy for someone to sit in their ivory tower and pass judgement on another for reacting in a particular manner given a particular circumstance that you may find reprehensible.

I'm not sitting in some ivory tower as you would suggest. I'm expressing my values and what I find disturbing in someones views. Clearly you and others disagree and that's fine.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Dion

It is wrong. Do you want vengeance over justice?

While seeking revenge, dig two graves -- one for yourself.
- Doug Horton

Are you confusing vengeance with violence or something like that? Justice is a form of vengeance.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Dion

You mean below where Nage Waza expressed his generalities

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=2675

Nothing I said (in your quote) supports your argument or point in any way shape or form.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Im not advocating for people to take the law into their own hands. I'm saying its very easy for someone to sit in their ivory tower and pass judgement on another for reacting in a particular manner given a particular circumstance that you may find reprehensible.

Exactly. We are a bunch of people writing about a sensitive subject.

On that note, two people I know lost their lives on 911, one used to be close to me (I actually did not know she was there until a few years after the fact) and the other an acquaintance. These terrorist attacks absolutely make me say bad bad things, but as an advocate of our legal system, like most other people, they are simply words.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Are you confusing vengeance with violence or something like that? Justice is a form of vengeance.

If the will of the people of Mass is against the death penalty it is clear that the federal govt is looking for vengeance as opposed to justice.

Vengenance is not justice

Today’s notice by no means ends the discussion. Even where the federal government has noticed an intent to seek the death penalty, it is not uncommon for prosecutors to withdraw the threat of execution later on, and instead support a plea deal calling for life imprisonment.

Still, Holder’s decision to authorize a death penalty prosecution sets the stage for a long, drawn-out, complex, expensive and sensationalized judicial process that, in the end, will do nothing to enhance public safety.

It also disregards the clear wishes of the people of Massachusetts, who through their elected representatives have repeatedly rejected the death penalty. Even shortly after the marathon bombing, a Boston Globepoll found that the people of Boston, by nearly a 2 to 1 margin, favor a sentence of life without parole rather than a death sentence if Tsarnaev is convicted.

Seeking the death penalty also runs counter to both facts and trends at home and abroad. The United States is one of few countries worldwide to still use the death penalty, and the only Western democracy to do so, according to Amnesty International. At home, states continue to join Massachusetts in rejecting the death penalty, with Maryland most recently joining the list of states that have abolished capital punishment.

Opposition to the death penalty is growing because people know that it is applied in a discriminatory and arbitrary way. They realize that it inherently violates the constitutional ban against cruel and unusual punishment. They know that studies in the U.S. and worldwide show that the death penalty does not deter crime. They also know that drawn-out death penalty cases cost taxpayers more than a penalty of life imprisonment without parole and that, either way, the person convicted dies in prison

http://cognoscenti.wbur.org/2014/01/...aev-carol-rose

[Dion]

To end the anguish, drop the death penalty

In Bill and Denise Richard’s own words

But now that the tireless and committed prosecution team has ensured that justice will be served, we urge the Department of Justice to bring the case to a close. We are in favor of and would support the Department of Justice in taking the death penalty off the table in exchange for the defendant spending the rest of his life in prison without any possibility of release and waiving all of his rights to appeal

We understand all too well the heinousness and brutality of the crimes committed. We were there. We lived it. The defendant murdered our 8-year-old son, maimed our 7-year-old daughter, and stole part of our soul. We know that the government has its reasons for seeking the death penalty, but the continued pursuit of that punishment could bring years of appeals and prolong reliving the most painful day of our lives. We hope our two remaining children do not have to grow up with the lingering, painful reminder of what the defendant took from them, which years of appeals would undoubtedly bring.

For us, the story of Marathon Monday 2013 should not be defined by the actions or beliefs of the defendant, but by the resiliency of the human spirit and the rallying cries of this great city. We can never replace what was taken from us, but we can continue to get up every morning and fight another day. As long as the defendant is in the spotlight, we have no choice but to live a story told on his terms, not ours. The minute the defendant fades from our newspapers and TV screens is the minute we begin the process of rebuilding our lives and our family.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...IEN/story.html

[Minnie]

Wish it upon someone? No. Care if it happens? I'm quite ok with not giving a total blue #### if it does. There've only been 2 people that have ever made that list. One died a few years ago, painfully, of cancer. Gee, my heart bleeds. </sarcasm> The other is still alive - if things in life conspire in such a way that his death is painful, well...guess that happens when you're a complete and total evil person. *shrug* I won't pretend to be sorry or pretend to feel badly that he might be hurting when he dies.

I used to be pretty firm on my stance of being against the death sentence. Now, in certain instances, I'm ok with it. For Tsaernev, I would have much rather seen him locked up 23 of 24 hours a day, with nothing to occupy him except his own thoughts. I think that would be fitting punishment.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dion

To end the anguish, drop the death penalty

In Bill and Denise Richard’s own words
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...IEN/story.html

In cases like this where there is zero doubt the death sentence should be immediate with no appeals or... no death penalty at all.

Having said that my personal belief is capital punishment is barbaric. A big percentage of chosen executioners end up with mental problems and the victims familys don't feel any better in the end anyway.