[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There are 26 centres with a cap hit of over $8M. Lindholm at $9M or under is at least as good or better than:

JT Miller
PL Dubois
Bo Horvat
Tomas Hertl
Niklas Backstrom
Mat Barzal
Mika Zibanejad
Ryan Johansen
Tyler Seguin
Logan Couture

Lindholm was the 33rd highest scoring C in the league in a year from Hell.

We’re about to start giving Huberdeau his $84M, we may as well give him the highest-quality centre available.

That’s Elias Lindholm and nobody else.

Giving Lindholm his money isn’t nearly as frightening as spending picks and prospect capital to acquire someone who isn’t as good and isn’t perceptibly cheaper.

I would definitely take Zibanajed straight up for Lindholm, that would be a great trade for the Flames. A 1.04 PPG guy over the past 5 seasons vs a 0.88 PPG guy, definitely Zibanajed for me.

He is defintely as good as Miller, Horvat, Dubois and Hertl so it would not be the worst contract until you reach the back end when it will be bad (see Couture).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would definitely take Zibanajed straight up for Lindholm, that would be a great trade for the Flames. A 1.04 PPG guy over the past 5 seasons vs a 0.88 PPG guy, definitely Zibanajed for me.

He is defintely as good as Miller, Horvat, Dubois and Hertl so it would not be the worst contract until you reach the back end when it will be bad (see Couture).

If it’s a bad contract, it’ll help get the team a better pick - San Jose just picked 4th.

If it’s not a bad contract, it means Lindholm is still a quality player and a big reason for team success.

No lose scenario.

The cap will be $110M by the time this deal expires anyway.

[browntrout]

It makes no absolute sense to sign him right now, when even management must relize that this is essentially the same team - Toffoli + more rookies) that could very well miss the playoffs again. This screams ownership meddling...can this owner just get lost already

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browntrout

It makes no absolute sense to sign him right now, when even management must relize that this is essentially the same team - Toffoli + more rookies) that could very well miss the playoffs again. This screams ownership meddling...can this owner just get lost already

Yeah and after 2021 they should have traded everyone instead of coming back with the same team that missed the POs.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If it’s a bad contract, it’ll help get the team a better pick - San Jose just picked 4th.

If it’s not a bad contract, it means Lindholm is still a quality player and a big reason for team success.

No lose scenario.

The cap will be $110M by the time this deal expires anyway.

Or they continue to be right dab in the middle. Worst of both worlds.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Or they continue to be right dab in the middle. Worst of both worlds.

So middle pack teams that don’t choose to rebuild turn the corner 0% of the time? It’s probably less likely but not 0 if you manage your team well. Definitely seems to be a shift in the way things are done since conroy took over. Time will tell how he does

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Or they continue to be right dab in the middle. Worst of both worlds.

The middle is a fringe playoff team.

That’s literally their goal. It wouldn’t be my goal, but it’s not my team. So if it’s what they want, there’s no point in not re-signing players that would help you achieve that.

If they’re a fringe playoff team for 3-4 years, winning a round or two in that time, from ownership’s perspective, that’s money well spent.

If they suck the next 3-5 years after that, they’ll be forced into a rebuild.

They were a fringe playoff team this year With everything that went wrong for them - they’re in the playoffs if Wolf plays even five games for them last year.

A full season of everyone not being miserable, without the trauma of Gaudreau/Tkachuk leaving, with better goaltending, and comp long term commitments from all the pieces that matter, Kylington coming back… they could genuinely could be a first place team. There’s certainly no reason to assume they’ll be a bottom feeder.

If they sign him later, it’ll only be for more money. The time to get the best deal is now.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If it’s a bad contract, it’ll help get the team a better pick - San Jose just picked 4th.

If it’s not a bad contract, it means Lindholm is still a quality player and a big reason for team success.

No lose scenario.

The cap will be $110M by the time this deal expires anyway.

That would be a pretty awful and expensive way to fail forward. Certainly nothing you plan for.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

That would be a pretty awful and expensive way to fail forward. Certainly nothing you plan for.

Not disagreeing.

But it’s what they’re going to do.

And if it gets us a couple top picks, who cares.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If it’s a bad contract, it’ll help get the team a better pick - San Jose just picked 4th.

If it’s not a bad contract, it means Lindholm is still a quality player and a big reason for team success.

No lose scenario.

The cap will be $110M by the time this deal expires anyway.

Just because the contract turns bad doesn’t mean Calgary will get a great pick. They may simply keep picking in the middle.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Just because the contract turns bad doesn’t mean Calgary will get a great pick. They may simply keep picking in the middle.

Which is ownership’s baseline expectation at this point in time.

If the contract is bad, it’s because Lindholm is not producing like a $9 million player. If he is producing like a $9 million player this roster is probably good enough to be anywhere from 5th to 9th on a regular basis, with some puck luck and good goaltending.

At this point in time, we aren’t getting anything better.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Which is ownership’s baseline expectation at this point in time.

If the contract is bad, it’s because Lindholm is not producing like a $9 million player. If he is producing like a $9 million player this roster is probably good enough to be anywhere from 5th to 9th on a regular basis, with some puck luck and good goaltending.

At this point in time, we aren’t getting anything better.

Lindholm is just one player.

Just because he is producing like a $9M player does not guarantee Calgary is a very good team.

BTW, is that 5-9 in their conference or the NHL?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Lindholm is just one player.

Just because he is producing like a $9M player does not guarantee Calgary is a very good team.

BTW, is that 5-9 in their conference or the NHL?

Whatever they’re trying to accomplish is easier accomplished with Lindholm at whatever his number is than another Kadri level player signed/traded to do Lindholm’s job.

And yes, 5-9 in the conference.

[dissentowner]

I think the last page or so got lost. There is a no hope negative thread, this is not it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So middle pack teams that don’t choose to rebuild turn the corner 0% of the time? It’s probably less likely but not 0 if you manage your team well. Definitely seems to be a shift in the way things are done since conroy took over. Time will tell how he does

The issue is even if Conroy does an amazing job, all that incredible work will likely be offset but these huge contracts for underperforming players. Use Dallas as an example, they've done great at drafting and developing but Seguins 10 million for the next 4 years is a burden. Benn had a bounce back year last year but previously he had really underperformed. Given his age and 4 years left thats another 10 million that is likely poorly spent. Im sure Dallas would much rather have 20 million in cap space than those two for the next 4 years. Now with the Flames we have multiple contracts that could look like that. So even if Conroy does an amazing job these contract likely come back to bite you in the butt. If they were contenders now by all means go for it but to have to deal with these contracts later to maybe make the playoffs for a few seasons doesn't seem worth it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The issue is even if Conroy does an amazing job, all that incredible work will likely be offset but these huge contracts for underperforming players. Use Dallas as an example, they've done great at drafting and developing but Seguins 10 million for the next 4 years is a burden. Benn had a bounce back year last year but previously he had really underperformed. Given his age and 4 years left thats another 10 million that is likely poorly spent. Im sure Dallas would much rather have 20 million in cap space than those two for the next 4 years. Now with the Flames we have multiple contracts that could look like that. So even if Conroy does an amazing job these contract likely come back to bite you in the butt. If they were contenders now by all means go for it but to have to deal with these contracts later to maybe make the playoffs for a few seasons doesn't seem worth it.

Seguin and Benn have helped the Dallas Stars win seven playoff rounds since they’ve been on the team, and made it to at least the third round twice.

There are no guarantees, other than they for sure wouldn’t have won more without them.

[MrMike]

Seguin had injury issues with his hip. If Huberdeau/Lindholm stay healthy, even at 10.5/9 mill I believe they will still be solid contributors and not dead weight.

If it wasn’t for Covid and the cap staying flat, Dallas would have been in a much better position with that Seguin contract.

If we don’t sign Lindholm we lose our top line center and I don’t see any way for us to get one back in the next 3-4 years during the prime of Huberdeau’s contract.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah and after 2021 they should have traded everyone instead of coming back with the same team that missed the POs.

Different times, they still had Gaudreau and Tkachuk in their prime....guess your really sold on Huberdeau and Lindholm

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Different times, they still had Gaudreau and Tkachuk in their prime....guess your really sold on Huberdeau and Lindholm

It doesn’t matter if “we” like it - this is the direction ownership is going.

That direction is better with Lindholm than without.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Different times, they still had Gaudreau and Tkachuk in their prime....guess your really sold on Huberdeau and Lindholm

There were people on CP saying Tkachuk was overrated and you would never win with Gaudreau on your roster. Tkachuk, in particular, scored at a prorated 63-point pace in 2020-21. There were those who pooh-poohed the idea that he could be a point-per-game player, just as there are those who are convinced that Huberdeau is no better than a 55-point player from here on.

It's hindsight that makes the analogy look weak.