Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Oh is it? Please describe to me the "difficult" process.

Limited access to rifles and shotguns? How is it limited? In what way?

Do they? Like what?

I"m not asking these questions to be a d**k, I'm asking as I believe many Canadians and many posters in this thread don't really know the process or what's available in Canada or what laws we have in place. I see many assumptions that are inaccurate.

Well difficult would be an overstatementp when it comes to hunting rifles but you do need to pass a safety course and endure the waitng period. More difficult in that you can't just go to wal mart and buy whatever is legal in that state. I really do not know where one would begin in order to purchase a handgun I'm sure someone more knowledgeable on the subject can answer hat better then me.

When it comes to rules and responsibilities the owners have, they range from storage rules (trigger locked inside a locked safe), transportation rules (not loaded, in a storage case) and of course being armed in public. We (Canada/ USA) really live in two different worlds when it comes to gun laws.

You should really Google the rules and regulations yourself as I'm certainly no expert on this. You'd never see a person with a handgun in Burger King unless they were robbing the place here in Canada. Last fall in Kalispell my wife noticed a hillbilly looking guy carrying one at Burger King at lunch time and at supper at the Hu Hot I noticed another fellow was carrying a hand gun. Our gun laws are also national, not varying by state like in the US. California apparently has some of the strictest laws in the US, Arz however, well that is one state with the very few.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by codynw

Good, finally someone in the media has the balls to put up a headline like this.

[blueski]

This event seems to be leaning towards a terrorist attack. Seems to me it wouldn't be addressed by gun control.

And then to those advocating more gun control, what do you do if or when terrorists are attacking North America on a daily basis? Does forbidding people to arm themselves for self defense really help if it ever gets that bad?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

What Gun ownership dropping. They sold more guns on Black Friday than ever. Ever since Obama has been in office people have been buying them at record numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As I said, less people are buying guns but now they feel the need to own lots of them, the average gun owner in the 60's had one gun, now their are less owners but they average over 5 guns.

The number of Americans that own guns is down bout 1/4 since the 80's if memory serves.

[woob]

First of all, my heart goes out to the victims and their friends/families. This is something no family should have to go through.

Secondly, I felt a little guilty, but I had to chuckle this morning as I was listening to a news bit on the shooting on CBC. They were talking about the individuals who committed this terrible act and how a colleague of theirs said they were just everyday people, living the American dream. It was at that point that I laughed to myself and thought "yup, the American dream, right down to purchasing multiple guns, legally, including assault rifles. Because every American needs those!"

Upon reflection, it's sad that I've become so desensitized to these types of shootings south of the border that I now react with thoughts like I had above and thinking "yeesh, another one?"

That's my ramblings for today.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blueski

This event seems to be leaning towards a terrorist attack. Seems to me it wouldn't be addressed by gun control.

And then to those advocating more gun control, what do you do if or when terrorists are attacking North America on a daily basis? Does forbidding people to arm themselves for self defense really help if it ever gets that bad?

yes it helps because guns offer no self defence, none, nada, nothing.
out of the two hundred people in that room statistically 40 or 50 were gun owners, didn't do squat to help them or anyone else.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by blueski

This event seems to be leaning towards a terrorist attack. Seems to me it wouldn't be addressed by gun control.

And then to those advocating more gun control, what do you do if or when terrorists are attacking North America on a daily basis? Does forbidding people to arm themselves for self defense really help if it ever gets that bad?

Please tell me more about these daily terror attacks and how arming ourselves with guns shall help (if it ever gets that bad).

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well difficult would be an overstatementp when it comes to hunting rifles but you do need to pass a safety course and endure the waitng period.

Endure the waiting period? Not at all. I can go by a handgun at lunch today and pick it up tomorrow. Any non restricted rifle (including numerous models of semi auto) and I would walk out today with it.

More difficult in that you can't just go to wal mart and buy whatever is legal in that state.

Sure you can. Maybe not all Walmarts but certainly Canadian Tire, Wholesale Sports, Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops or any other shooting center.

When it comes to rules and responsibilities the owners have, they range from storage rules (trigger locked inside a locked safe), transportation rules (not loaded, in a storage case) and of course being armed in public. We (Canada/ USA) really live in two different worlds when it comes to gun laws.

Storage rules are most certainly better in Canada. No question there. However, it's perfectly legal to through a rifle or shotgun in the back of your car and drive away. No case or trigger lock required. In fact, it's perfectly legal to through a rifle over your shoulder and jump on the C-Train. Legal yes, advisable, no.

You should really Google the rules and regulations yourself as I'm certainly no expert on this. You'd never see a person with a handgun in Burger King unless they were robbing the place here in Canada. Last fall in Kalispell my wife noticed a hillbilly looking guy carrying one at Burger King at lunch time and at supper at the Hu Hot I noticed another fellow was carrying a hand gun. Our gun laws are also national, not varying by state like in the US. California apparently has some of the strictest laws in the US, Arz however, well that is one state with the very few.

Concealed Carry or open carry is certainly NOT something I'd ever support either.

[PsYcNeT]

Stone cold New York Daily News

[Nobama]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Obviously any kind of fire arms reform or control is going to have to include the illegal gun trade. Which is difficult because of America's basically open border policy. Unless you can get the Chinese and Israelis and Philipines and Russians etc to stop shipping guns here via organized crime for hard currency the point is pretty much moot.

And if you want to get guns out of people's houses, then you have to look at it in a different way

1) Incentives people to not have guns in their homes. That means working on the reputation and effectiveness of police forces throughout the US. Cracking down on criminal acts that involve fire arms hard. Improvements in the poorer urban areas of the cities that have become war zones. Plus when I talk about gun crimes, I'm talking about any deaths cause by fire arms. Get rid of the stupid self defense laws that allow morons to shoot kids in the street because they react badly to a situation. There are absolutely times and places for self defense, but realistically, I fail to see where firearms in the hands of untrained novices who can go to a gun shop and buy a gun or a trade show is an effective home defense strategy.

2) Pass a massive tax bill on guns or on bullets, and require people to buy a separate comprehensive and expensive non optional insurance policy for their home if you have a gun in it. Or if your are carrying a gun on your person you have to carry an insurance policy with a massive comp policy. Make guns a expensive item.

3) Frankly if your caught with an illegal gun in your possession, its 5 years in jail, if you sell a gun illegally its 10 years in jail. If you shoot someone with an illegal gun its life with no parole.


4) Improve port and border crossing inspections to reduce gun smuggling. Increase funding in terms of fighting organized crime, maybe stop chasing people for smoking dope and funnel that money into finding the sources of illegal guns.

5) No more weapons shows, no more buying guns anywhere but a properly licensed gun shop with an effective tracking system. If you've ever been convicted of a felony you can't have one, ever. If you have mental health issues on record, you can't have one. You have to go through a physical and mental assessment at your own cost that's signed by a certified professional before you can buy a gun. You also have to go through a proper gun safety and situational training course. Preferably one where they throw flash bangs and shoot real rounds over your head while your in different situations. If you don't pass that test the first time, no gun for you.

6) Limit the access to the type of weapons available. No magazines larger then 3 rounds, if you mod a weapon and are caught with it, then you are prosecuted. No semi automatics, all rifles for public use are bolt action. No magazine fed pistols, you can buy a revolver with a 6 shot maximum, and no pistols bigger then a .22 will be sold.

There will be a grace period of two years for people to get compliant with financial incentives. After that your prosecuted.

To me whether its people or guns as an argument which is stupid because I can use that for anyone. Hey cars don't kill people people kill people. Vacuums don't kill people people kill people.

At the end of the day, in the last two years we've seen over 650 mass shooting incidences a majority I believe where they used weapons that were purchased legally. Obviously there is a massive problem with the way guns are controlled.



The constitution and the 2nd amendment weren't written to be a suicide pact or a legal defense for the ability to commit mass murder on your own people.

In theory your ideas are great, assuming that there are not hundreds of millions of guns and ammo and cartridges already in the hands of hundreds of millions of people. Your ideas could work if implemented now and the expectation of change within the next 100 years.

[polak]

Originally Posted by pylon

Good, finally someone in the media has the balls to put up a headline like this.

The comments on their fb page are funny. Not a single retort involves rational thought or logic. The main response seems to be "It's a lack of faith that got us here!" and it's a widely shared opinion.

It's depressing cause in the circles i travel in both socially and on the internet, it really feels like logic and rational thinking are growing and faith based arguments and the "the government wants to take our guns!" angle is dwindling but then you go and check out the reactions by the general public in the US and you see that it's not even close.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Endure the waiting period? Not at all. I can go by a handgun at lunch today and pick it up tomorrow. Any non restricted rifle (including numerous models of semi auto) and I would walk out today with it.

Sure you can. Maybe not Walmart but certainly Canadian Tire, Wholesale Sports, Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops or any other shooting center.

Storage rules are most certainly better in Canada. No question there. However, it's perfectly legal to through a rifle or shotgun in the back of your car and drive away. No case or trigger lock required. In fact, it's perfectly legal to through a rifle over your shoulder and jump on the C-Train. Legal yes, advisable, no.

Concealed Carry or open carry is certainly NOT something I'd ever support either.

Bull####. Since when? I'm not even suppose to stop for gas with a gun without informing local authorities first. In my own car I am to travel from my residence to a firing range directly. And vice versa.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Bull####. Since when? I'm not even suppose to stop for gas with a gun without informing local authorities first. In my own car I am to travel from my residence to a firing range directly. And vice versa.

Do you even own a firearm?

What you are referring to is the transportation of restricted firearms and you can certainly stop for gas or something to eat. Your ATT (assuming you have one) states "most direct route possible" it doesn't say anything about not being allowed to make stops along the way.

I'm referring to a non restricted rifle.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Nobama

In theory your ideas are great, assuming that there are not hundreds of millions of guns and ammo and cartridges already in the hands of hundreds of millions of people. Your ideas could work if implemented now and the expectation of change within the next 100 years.

There are two options...

1 - Do nothing. No changes made, expect these mass shootings to continue.

2 - Do something and maybe someday in 5, 10, 25, 100 years it starts getting better.

Nobody said it was going to be easy/quick but I feel its pretty obvious that doing nothing is not the answer.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Nobody said it was going to be easy/quick but I feel its pretty obvious that doing nothing is not the answer.

Hey they're doing more than nothing, they're praying.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

First there was nothing. Then, poof! A Supreme Court Justice appeared!

What are you talking about?

I asked you, in response to your statement that the NRA was "buy[ing] off enough politicians and judges so that America's "leaders" could redefine the commonly held interpretation of said amendment," how the NRA was able to "buy off" the judges on the Supreme Court....which is a perfectly valid question considering that the Supreme Court is the final arbiter and interpreter the Second Amendment.

You then responded with "The idiotic American ideal of elected judges puts them right into the same category of politicians . . ."

Yet, as I noted, the justices on the Supreme Court are not elected.

So , I must ask, do you have any idea of what you are talking about???

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Where do you think the pool of high ranking judges comes from?

In recent times, mostly from the lower federal courts. Which, are, again, not elected positions.

Where do you think they come from????

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Where do you think those judges get their election funding from on the way up?

They don't have any "election funding," because there isn't any election to fund.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Additionally, I note that you failed to defend your argument on your points 2 and 3.

True, and I didn't do so for three reasons:

1) I had to run to a lunch meeting.

2) Your response to my second point reiterated mine. Namely, that if redefining the meaning and interpretation of Amendments has been going on ever since the Amendments were passed and adopted, then changing the meaning of the Second Amendment reflects what the "commonly held interpretation" is of that Amendment as of the time.

3) My position isn't weak. Rather, it shows that people are quite selective in what they believe certain Constitutional Amendments should say, and how originalism is fine with them in regards to one Amendment, but not in regards to another Amendment. If the Constitution is a living document, then it must adapt and change over time to reflect people's beliefs in that time.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by rohara66

There are two options...
1 - Do nothing. No changes made, expect these mass shootings to continue.
2 - Do something and maybe someday in 5, 10, 25, 100 years it starts getting better.
Nobody said it was going to be easy/quick but I feel its pretty obvious that doing nothing is not the answer.

the hard part is deciding what to do as i was thinking that it could be possible that each shooter had completely different motivations for doing what they did.

seems that the two easy targets are the gun culture issue in the us and mental health, a third could likely identifying those that have become radicalized enough to want to strike out in a violent manner against civilians - but i could be completely wrong.

[CroFlames]

I firmly believe a culture shift needs to happen in America. An attitude change towards guns much the same way the attitude towards tobacco has changed. Public awareness campaigns and constant reinforcement that guns are there for the sole purpose of killing. Which is bad.

[llwhiteoutll]

So for a bit of clarity.

You can't take a firearm on Calgary transit, there is a bylaw that prohibits it. GATW is correct when he states that the only transport requirement is that a non-restricted firearm is unloaded.

The ATT post is mostly incorrect. For a restricted firearm, transport must be from the place of storage to the destination (not just a range) by the most reasonably direct route. This means that stopping for gas or something to eat is legal. You do not ever need to advise local authorities that you are transporting a firearm under an long term authorzation. If you are transporting under a short term authorization, you receive that permission from the CFO, not local authorities.

The storage requirement about rendering a firearm inoperable when stored in a safe is incorrect. If stored in a safe, a firearm does not need to be rendered inoperable and ammunition can be stored in the same safe.

If you possess a valid PAL/RPAL, you can indeed buy a non-restricted firearm and take it with you immediately. For a restricted, you need to wait to remove it from the point of purchase and that time can vary based on the CFC/CFO and how fast the transfer is completed and a short term authorization is granted. I've seen same day purchase/transport home and also ones that take weeks. Either way, a restricted can't be transported from your place of storage without the registration certificate, which can take up to a month from the time of registration to arrive.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I firmly believe a culture shift needs to happen in America. An attitude change towards guns much the same way the attitude towards tobacco has changed. Public awareness campaigns and constant reinforcement that guns are there for the sole purpose of killing. Which is bad.

Why not a campaign to address the use of firearms in crime and the root causes of crime? There are plenty of legitimate uses for firearms, but you're saying that since some people misuse them, no one should have them. If you tried that same logic with cars or knives, people would go nuts because it would inconvenience them. There are less people who own firearms, so it's easier for those who don't to tell them they shouldn't have them since it doesn't affect them. Just like a knife or a car, the purpose of an object is decided by the user.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by pylon

I used to get passionate about this subject, but it is at the point with me now that it just isn't worth the aggravation anymore. Just like that friend you had that is battling addiction, and is making terrible life choices and you've tried a million times to help or intervene, and every single time they just F it up, and make matters worse for themselves. Eventually all you can do is shrug your shoulders, give up, and let nature take its course.

The US is addicted to guns, and we just have to accept that these massacres are just another screw up as a result of their addiction. These massacres are just part of American life now. If they don't want to help themselves, why bother caring anymore?

I pissed someone off today, by wondering this out loud - they don't seem to care, why do they expect the world to care? Why do they expect the world to see another report of a mass shooting/killing and think anything other than "so it's a typical Thursday in the US then?"

I have lots of family there. I have family there killed by the gun violence. A member of my family is a part of the Wiki entry on his killer. So I'm not unaware or untouched by it.

But you're an ####### if you don't do anything but mutter the usual "oh dear, so sorry, that's very sad, the poor children". It's much easier to get pissed off by the world asking the hard questions that they seemingly aren't able to ask or answer or want to even entertain.