Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

They weren’t conquered and no agreements were reached on all that territory.

The massive white european culturued cities spanning North America clearly indicates a good ol' conquerin

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

So we should give all lands back to First Nations people. They can do what they want with all lands. I presume that means we will be subject to them I guess. Somebody has to make decisions on lands.

My ancestors as recently as my grand father didn't oppress these people just to give it back. Nice try.

[Mr.Coffee]

Nah just give it back! No need for any of that just give it back. It’s theirs and we stole it so give it back to them.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Nah just give it back! No need for any of that just give it back. It’s theirs and we stole it so give it back to them.

Conquered. No Liberated. Liberated is better!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The various levels of government in this country can restrict who enters certain spaces. If we're serious about indigenous self-governance, why would indigenous governments not be given the same rights?

Because we have a government that serves the people of the province generally, not a subset of people. That government has to govern according to rules about not differentiating treatment as between different racial groups with regard to their access to public services, public lands, etc.

I don't think it's clear what it is that you're suggesting. If you're saying that in order to be serious about indigenous self-governance, we divide up the whole province as between different indigenous groups based on who has title to what regions (assuming that debate could be resolved amongst those groups) and let them govern the whole province in place of the current provincial government... yeah, I think you're the one who's not seriously engaging with reality here.

But if you're saying something else you need to be clearer.

Just to clarify, are we talking personal property or private property?

I'm talking about my mom's house. Or anyone's. It all sits on unceded territory.

[Monahammer]

I'll be the heartless bastard, but I find the continuance of this situation created with indigenous peoples to be intolerable.

Comparatively, what happened to indigenous peoples in Canada was nowhere close to as bad as other european settler cultures. Ever wonder why the US doesnt have similar issues? Well, it's because they really did genocide most indigenous people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native..._United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The land acknowledgement has really always bothered the crap out of me, especially when it comes to the cree. They have not been on the prairies since time immemorial. They were the most successful nation in the initial fur trade, and then used guns and horses to expand into the prairies only a generation ahead of european settlers.
Relevant source: https://gladue.usask.ca/cree#:~:text...and%20Manitoba.

Also easily visible in indigenous language maps, where the cree portion cuts off the other language families.

I support the preservation of culture and linguistic history, and absolutely continue to support rememberance of these acts of cultural genocide that Canada as a nation undertook. But comparatively what Canada did compared to what it now endures is vastly disproportionate to peers. Why can't we work together to build as equals now? Why do we have to enforce an imbalance in power and control when it creates untenable situations for the people who live on this land together today?
I revile the reserve system and feel like this is a blight upon our society. I feel that unceded territory is an attempt to live outside of the existing reality- sure, in treaty of a century ago it was unceded, but by basically any measure this land is jointly controlled and owned by CANADIANS now. Today. For example, how could indigenous people pretend to levy sovereignty with force on it? I'm not trying to be obtuse here I am genuinely wondering what everyone thinks would happen?

We are trying to combat a historical injustice by creating injustice today. I can't see how that turns out better for anyone in the long run.

[PepsiFree]

“But why did they halt truth & reconciliation and dismantle all the treaties and reserves grandpa?”

“Well, many years ago, some indigenous folk decided whites couldn’t go in a park for a couple weeks…”

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“But why did they halt truth & reconciliation and dismantle all the treaties and reserves grandpa?”

“Well, many years ago, some indigenous folk decided whites couldn’t go in a park for a couple weeks…”

Oh wait, this only applies to whitey? Feck y'all then, I'm beige, gonna go get my Paki-side some forbidden park time.

Maybe I'll join their hunting group ... which, upon reflection, is kinda weird since I don't think you're actually allowed to hunt in Joffre Lakes Park otherwise, but hey, the land needs an opportunity to rest from you lot and your human impacts by being subjected to... uh... *reads notes* ... "hunting, fishing, harvesting medicines, and engaging in spiritual activities". Sweet... that last one is long-hand for dancing, right?

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Oh wait, this only applies to whitey? Feck y'all then, I'm beige, gonna go get my Paki-side some forbidden park time.

Maybe I'll join their hunting group ... which, upon reflection, is kinda weird since I don't think you're actually allowed to hunt in Joffre Lakes Park otherwise, but hey, the land needs an opportunity to rest from you lot and your human impacts by being subjected to... uh... *reads notes* ... "hunting, fishing, harvesting medicines, and engaging in spiritual activities". Sweet... that last one is long-hand for dancing, right?

Please, please be half Pakistani.

Oh lord, imagine whitey saying this to someone??

That is hilarious.

[TorqueDog]

I am. Mom's brown, was born in Karachi, moved to Canada just shy of turning 18.

Usually I get mistaken for being Spanish or Italian, something along those lines.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'll be the heartless bastard, but I find the continuance of this situation created with indigenous peoples to be intolerable.

Comparatively, what happened to indigenous peoples in Canada was nowhere close to as bad as other european settler cultures. Ever wonder why the US doesnt have similar issues? Well, it's because they really did genocide most indigenous people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native..._United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

The land acknowledgement has really always bothered the crap out of me, especially when it comes to the cree. They have not been on the prairies since time immemorial. They were the most successful nation in the initial fur trade, and then used guns and horses to expand into the prairies only a generation ahead of european settlers.
Relevant source: https://gladue.usask.ca/cree#:~:text...and%20Manitoba.

Also easily visible in indigenous language maps, where the cree portion cuts off the other language families.

I support the preservation of culture and linguistic history, and absolutely continue to support rememberance of these acts of cultural genocide that Canada as a nation undertook. But comparatively what Canada did compared to what it now endures is vastly disproportionate to peers. Why can't we work together to build as equals now? Why do we have to enforce an imbalance in power and control when it creates untenable situations for the people who live on this land together today?
I revile the reserve system and feel like this is a blight upon our society. I feel that unceded territory is an attempt to live outside of the existing reality- sure, in treaty of a century ago it was unceded, but by basically any measure this land is jointly controlled and owned by CANADIANS now. Today. For example, how could indigenous people pretend to levy sovereignty with force on it? I'm not trying to be obtuse here I am genuinely wondering what everyone thinks would happen?

We are trying to combat a historical injustice by creating injustice today. I can't see how that turns out better for anyone in the long run.

Is that the case? I thought none of these claims had treaties involved. The situation in BC is a fair bit different than most of Canada where treaties exist.


I think with the Haida Gwaii it's a little bit like Quebec, where they are a nation within Canada.

Aboriginal title
4.1 (1)The government of British Columbia recognizes that the Haida Nation has aboriginal title within the meaning of section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 to land on Haida Gwaii, as described in the Schedule to this Act.

(2)For certainty, the recognition in subsection (1) engages the honour of the Crown.

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/d.../statreg/23024

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Haida Gwaii is kind of sui generis although even there there are a lot of concerns about the precedent that agreement set.

[puffnstuff]

“Peter Lougheed was at the forefront of discussions to include the notwithstanding clause during constitutional negotiations and also one to suggest improvements after the fact. The bill includes – and builds off – Lougheed’s suggestions to ensure the clause is used as was originally intended.”

–#Senator Peter Harder

https://theprogressives.ca/news/sena...tion-act-1982/

Kinda forget we have a Senate sometimes. New bill regarding use of the notwithstanding clause introduced

[calculoso]

Ottawa planning 'up-front' approval for projects deemed in the national interest

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...tion-1.7547435

The Liberal government will introduce legislation to assist in identifying projects in the national interest and provide "up-front regulatory approvals" to major projects, according to a federal document obtained by CBC News.

"Once a project is determined to be in the national interest, federal reviews will shift from 'whether' to build these projects to 'how' to best advance them," the document reads.

(Snip)
The document was prepared by the Privy Council Office (PCO) and shared with Indigenous groups to outline the aims of proposed legislation
(Snip)

The PCO document indicated that the government will consider a project within the national interest if it makes "an exceptional contribution to Canada's prosperity, advances economic security, defence security and national autonomy through improved movement of goods, services and people."
(Snip)

The speech promised to "unleash a new era of growth" by creating a federal project review office and reducing regulatory reviews "from five years to two."

Despite the proposed changes, the PCO document said fast-tracking project approvals will still respect the government's legal obligations to Indigenous communities, specifically the duty to consult.

Greenpeace not happy

[calculoso]

Harper and Trudeau share laughs, and other lighter throne speech moments

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sen...eech-1.7545254

We saw two former rivals set aside their differences and sit beside each other: Justin Trudeau and his predecessor Stephen Harper.

The former prime ministers were each in power for roughly a decade and have been regarded as representing polar opposites of the political spectrum. And yet today they were seen in friendly conversation, exchanging jokes and hearty laughs.

That… that traitor!

[Fuzz]

Under the right government, this is probably good legislation for Canada. Under the wrong government, it's kind of a recipe for disaster.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Harper and Trudeau share laughs, and other lighter throne speech moments

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sen...eech-1.7545254



That… that traitor!

Political partisans might be surprised to learn how little personal animosity most politicians have towards their opponents. Whatever else they are, they’re people doing the same job in the same place every day. And like colleagues in other lines of work, they develop bonds.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Political partisans might be surprised to learn how little personal animosity most politicians have towards their opponents. Whatever else they are, they’re people doing the same job in the same place every day. And like colleagues in other lines of work, they develop bonds.

Lawyers are usually cordial with other lawyers. Clients don’t understand how you could be friendly with the opponent’s lawyer.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Political partisans might be surprised to learn how little personal animosity most politicians have towards their opponents. Whatever else they are, they’re people doing the same job in the same place every day. And like colleagues in other lines of work, they develop bonds.

Glad that you used “most”. Can’t see Polievre having that same character.

Sure gives a different feel than the pure hate that *some* people have here for anyone disagreeing with them (political or otherwise)

[calculoso]

Fire ban so bad that ATVs are now banned in some areas

https://www.sasktoday.ca/provincial-...tions-10736318

But mah freedum

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I am. Mom's brown, was born in Karachi, moved to Canada just shy of turning 18.

Usually I get mistaken for being Spanish or Italian, something along those lines.

You are lucky, white peoples were about to get offended on your behalf.