High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[Galakanokis]

Much like Polanski, Spacey will not be arrested or charged unless he steps foot in England or Wales. So he is free to continue working in Italy at the moment I believe.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by blankall

You're clearly jumping to the worst conclusion despite facts pointing to the opposite being true. No different than the conclusion your opposing.

What conclusion? All this stems from someone claiming that the allegations of an alleged victim were proven to be false. They weren't. Full stop.

For allegations to be proven to be false there would need to be something like Spacey being in a different city at the time or something to that effect. A predator being found not guilty, having charges dropped or in a lot of cases never charged at all doesn't mean the victim was lying (nor does it mean the alleged was guilty).

Part of the reason the MeToo movement exists and the message it was trying to get across was to stop exactly what happened here. Victims don't speak up because they don't feel like they will be believed, will have their characters attacked if the person isn't convicted, blamed for putting themselves in the situation, accused of exaggerating the impact for ulterior motives, etc.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Much like Polanski, Spacey will not be arrested or charged unless he steps foot in England or Wales. So he is free to continue working in Italy at the moment I believe.

France does not extradite its own citizens. Polanski's case is significantly different as he's a French citizen living in France.

The US does extradite it's own citizens on occasion, and a lot of other countries are prepared to extradite non-nationalists especially to places like the UK as they don't have the death penalty. It would depend on the treaties and the actual evidence against him (still need probable cause for example if he is extradited from the US), but fighting extradition might be harder than just fighting the cases.

[Macman]

This is wrapping up as well, also new allegations this week.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6474862

Another guy I never even heard of prior is that fashion guy from Winnipeg, I believe he’s in custody currently and even facing extradition, forget his name.

[TorqueDog]

Peter Nygard, in custody in Toronto, court resumes in July: https://globalnews.ca/news/8868491/p...eal-case-july/

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

What conclusion? All this stems from someone claiming that the allegations of an alleged victim were proven to be false. They weren't. Full stop.

For allegations to be proven to be false there would need to be something like Spacey being in a different city at the time or something to that effect. A predator being found not guilty, having charges dropped or in a lot of cases never charged at all doesn't mean the victim was lying (nor does it mean the alleged was guilty).

Part of the reason the MeToo movement exists and the message it was trying to get across was to stop exactly what happened here. Victims don't speak up because they don't feel like they will be believed, will have their characters attacked if the person isn't convicted, blamed for putting themselves in the situation, accused of exaggerating the impact for ulterior motives, etc.

Except that he did speak up. What happened isn't really at issue either. Everyone believes that. At issue here is the impact on the victim. The reason the crown dropped the charges is that it's pretty clear the main piece of evidence was tampered with..... Supposedly by his mother, which doesn't make a lot of sense, and the victim can't provide any evidence, not because he's afraid to, but because he pled the fifth after being questioned about tampering with evidence.

[Macman]

Hoggard found guilty but still out on bail. Facing up to 14 years, that’s a lot.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6478728

[DownInFlames]

Sarah Polley: ‘It took me years to see how responsible Terry Gilliam was for my terror’

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...usen-interview

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Sarah Polley: ‘It took me years to see how responsible Terry Gilliam was for my terror’

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...usen-interview

That wasn't really about sexual abuse though, is it? He just seemed like a negligent director where a lot of things went wrong on set.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Wormius

That wasn't really about sexual abuse though, is it? He just seemed like a negligent director where a lot of things went wrong on set.

He has slammed the MeToo movement in the past and made light of Harvey Weinstein’s crimes so this is in response to that. Other actors have made claims that he’s a creep as well.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

He has slammed the MeToo movement in the past and made light of Harvey Weinstein’s crimes so this is in response to that. Other actors have made claims that he’s a creep as well.

What are those claims? I hand't heard that before.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

He has slammed the MeToo movement in the past and made light of Harvey Weinstein’s crimes so this is in response to that. Other actors have made claims that he’s a creep as well.

I suppose, although that didn't seem to be the main gist of the article.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What are those claims? I hand't heard that before.

I’m going to bed and I’m in a ####ty mood so I’m not into googling but here’s one

https://twitter.com/ellenbarkin/stat...NX14Q0H5lbBVRQ

Creep might not be the right word but he’s not a nice fellow.

[CaptainCrunch]

Maxwell gets 20 years.

[activeStick]

That seems low, no? I feel like weed dealers are likely in prison for longer terms, but I could be wrong... I'm guessing maybe lower sentence due to pleading guilty and maybe she's ratted a whole bunch of people out?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

That seems low, no? I feel like weed dealers are likely in prison for longer terms, but I could be wrong... I'm guessing maybe lower sentence due to pleading guilty and maybe she's ratted a whole bunch of people out?

I think Epstein set the precedent.

It doesnt matter how much time you sentence her to...she's not walking out of there.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think Epstein set the precedent.

It doesnt matter how much time you sentence her to...she's not walking out of there.

I think Ghislaine stands a lot higher than Epstein. The Maxwell family is the one with big connections to intelligence, media, tech and business. I think Epstein was a wizard at procuring childern and was brought into the fold by Ghislaine for his talents. I think this is all theatre and Ghislaine will not be locked up anywhere, but will be forced to give up her public life.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by activeStick

That seems low, no? I feel like weed dealers are likely in prison for longer terms, but I could be wrong... I'm guessing maybe lower sentence due to pleading guilty and maybe she's ratted a whole bunch of people out?

There's certainly weed dealers who are in for life due to the three strike system and other hard on crime bull####. Also she didn't plead guilty. But the maximum sentences for counts 1, 3, 5 were 5 years (conspiracy under U.S. Code § 371) and an appeal ruling considered them multiplicitous invoking double jeopardy and the court found that the decades long crime as a single crime with a maximum of 5 years under Count 3 (1 and 5 were dropped).

Count 4 (Transportation of an individual under the age of seventeen with intent to engage in sexual activity in violation of New York law i.e. the Mann Act conviction) had a maximum of 10 years and only dealt with one specific individual ("Jane). The maximum was based on when it occurred, but updates to the law have increased the maximums and currently it's 20 years (changed from 10 years in 2003 but the crime had began before then).

Count 6 (sex trafficking of an individual under the age of eighteen i.e. the Trafficking Victims Protection Act conviction) was related to only one individual ("Carolyn"). This has a maximum of 30 years at the time the crime occurred but now there is no maximum.

So Count 1, 3, 5 - maximum of 5 years
Count 4 - Maximum of 10 years
Count 6 - Maximum of 30 years

Now though someone doing the same thing could have each count of 1, 3 and 5 stick with a maximum of 20 years each, count 4 with a maximum of 20, and count 6 with no maximum.

But with the current charges, as much as I'm sure the judge would have liked to thrown the book at each one for her, the big one was count 6 and its based on transporting someone under 18 years of age to have criminal sex with. While Maxwell is obviously disgusting and deserves to rot, the actual crime here was in relation to giving a 14-17 year money to have sex with Epstein in New York. Horrible, but on a separate level of a child being kidnapped, transported and violently raped (though other charges attached to that).

That's why the probation department suggested 14-19, and the judge still gave her a bit more with 20. Had she done it today, she's probably looking at a much larger sentence but hands were tied.

[blankall]

^^^^^

This is definitely one of those cases, where despite what the prosecution decided to proceed on, we all know she's done much more and much worse than she's being prosecuted for. I do hope this doesn't turn into a similar situation as Epstein's first "incarceration", where he was allowed to leave the prison on "work release" after 3.5 months.

If parole boards take into account the serial nature of their crimes, hopefully she serves the whole 20 years and never sees the light of day again.

Edit: it's not called crown in places that don't have a queen.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

^^^^^

This is definitely one of those cases, where despite what the crown decided to proceed on, we all know she's done much more and much worse than she's being prosecuted for. I do hope this doesn't turn into a similar situation as Epstein's first "incarceration", where he was allowed to leave the prison on "work release" after 3.5 months.

If parole boards take into account the serial nature of their crimes, hopefully she serves the whole 20 years and never sees the light of day again.

O' really?