That is exactly what I mean, and Binance has also had numerous issues of their own, including an outright hack, API manipulation, and recently dropped their request for regulatory approval in Singapore.
But lets not for a second think that these practices are limited to Crypto companies. Banks and financial institutes have been caught up in shady practices for many years.
The problem here is the US refuses to play ball and help regulate these exchanges. Crypto.com has talked for basically two years that the US exchange is coming, and they simply haven't been able to get the regulatory approval in the US. In the meantime, they have it in Canada and many other countries.
But why regulate them if you can just go along with the scam and use it to help fund your political aspirations like the Democrats did with FTX.
You cant regulate someone just walking away with the money though, the money is still gone and dudes in Sochi or Havana, we can regulate banks because they intend to remain solvent and operating and so accept the regulation, the Crypto scams are just ponzi type plans, accumulate a ton of money then steal it all and take off, no amount of regulation can stop that
As opposed to the ponzi schemes & fraud that other 'non crypto' financial institutions practice on a daily basis?
Like I get the concern, but it is quite amusing how you think 'oh these crypto ponzi schemes' when banks & financial institutions have been fined to the tune of trillions of dollars because of their illegal practices.
The issue with FTX is it was run by scam artists who from day 1 were in it to defraud their customers. It was then propped up by all kinds of idiots like Tom Brady & Kevin 'only place I know I'm safe is at FTX' O' Leary, along with countless other government officials and who knows who else. This is no different than Enron, Theranos and countless other companies who basically ran ponzi schemes to steal from their customers.
At the same time there are legit Crypto Exchanges who process million and perhaps billions in crypto transactions each day, and they have been doing so without issue for a long time.
To me what FTX is just crony capitalism, and I think as the story is further exposed we'll learn just how deep in many high ranking public figures and government officials were caught up in manipulating everything to their favor.
As opposed to the ponzi schemes & fraud that other 'non crypto' financial institutions practice on a daily basis?
Like I get the concern, but it is quite amusing how you think 'oh these crypto ponzi schemes' when banks & financial institutions have been fined to the tune of trillions of dollars because of their illegal practices.
The issue with FTX is it was run by scam artists who from day 1 were in it to defraud their customers. It was then propped up by all kinds of idiots like Tom Brady & Kevin 'only place I know I'm safe is at FTX' O' Leary, along with countless other government officials and who knows who else. This is no different than Enron, Theranos and countless other companies who basically ran ponzi schemes to steal from their customers.
At the same time there are legit Crypto Exchanges who process million and perhaps billions in crypto transactions each day, and they have been doing so without issue for a long time.
To me what FTX is just crony capitalism, and I think as the story is further exposed we'll learn just how deep in many high ranking public figures and government officials were caught up in manipulating everything to their favor.
No disagreement but none of these were regulated, ponzis schemes arent
Oh and to be clear the vast majority of banks infractions tend to be either doing business with people they weren't supposed to, drug dealers, Iran etc or currency manipulation, now I wouldn't say either of these are harmless but they don't just steal the customers money and go bankrupt, there's a vast difference in the type of scam each is involved in and I don't see how you regulate against the intention to steal all the money and run away
I also dont see how you regulate the exchange without regulating the coin itself, no anonymity, full taxes, full tracking of the coin as it moves all of which slows the speed of transfers down to basically ordinary bank transfers and knocks away a huge part of the advantage of crypto in the first place
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 11-14-2022 at 06:55 PM.
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It's not that there aren't shady dealings in many other industries, it's that crypto had a far higher proportion of scams, grifts, and schemes per entity than any comparable financial sector. Again - less than 600 crypto exchanges and more than 44 000 banks. Comparing the two and claiming some kind of equivalency is asinine.
Further, the exchanges and other crypto-related firms that are exposed as ramshackle frauds are hardly the small, unknown ones, it's the bigger players. This year alone, it's been:
- Celsius
- TerraUSD/Luna
- Three Arrows Capital
- Voyager
- FTX
- BlockFI
You have to be willfully ignorant to believe there aren't serious, systemic problems with the entire crypto ecosphere when you look at that record of failure. Sure, blockchain might be useful in certain niche areas, but this thread isn't more than tangentially about blockchain, that's a side issue to the original evangelism proclaiming decentralized, private currencies would be replacing or complementing fiat. They won't. There's no progress on that front, we're no nearer that goal than we were when this thread was started, and the only real uses for cryptocurrency remain "investment" (aka gambling) and laundering the money of criminals.
Oh, and a third use of wasting electricity and effort on a societal net negative. You want to know why some of us continue to rant against the pernicious flummery and nonsense of cryptocurrency? It is an active detriment to all that deserves opposition until it dies its deserved death.
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Last edited by jammies; 11-14-2022 at 11:27 PM.
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Oh and to be clear the vast majority of banks infractions tend to be either doing business with people they weren't supposed to, drug dealers, Iran etc or currency manipulation, now I wouldn't say either of these are harmless but they don't just steal the customers money and go bankrupt, there's a vast difference in the type of scam each is involved in and I don't see how you regulate against the intention to steal all the money and run away
I also dont see how you regulate the exchange without regulating the coin itself, no anonymity, full taxes, full tracking of the coin as it moves all of which slows the speed of transfers down to basically ordinary bank transfers and knocks away a huge part of the advantage of crypto in the first place
I don't see why that would be a problem. Banks are regulated without also regulating all the global currencies they work with. If a customer takes their tokens off a centralized exchange, that's no longer the business of the exchange, just as banks don't track what happens to a customer's cash once it's out of their account. Requiring KYC, providing tax reports, keeping records of the addresses sent/received from are all pretty common now anyways if you're dealing with a centralized exchange moving more than just small value sums of tokens.
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I also dont see how you regulate the exchange without regulating the coin itself, no anonymity, full taxes, full tracking of the coin as it moves all of which slows the speed of transfers down to basically ordinary bank transfers and knocks away a huge part of the advantage of crypto in the first place
Just make them follow similar rules to brokerages, and that would fix most of the issues. If they take peoples' cash, they have to segregate it. And any funds in crypto have to be owned by the customer, not the exchange (similar to securities).
Granted, removing a lot of the shady practices might make these things less viable, or make it uneconomical to have Western-domiciled exchanges. But so what?
And if you're worried about government expenses related to that, the costs would fall on the exchanges. They would have to pay an independent accounting firm to audit their finances to ensure they were following the rules.
Not a particularly convincing argument. Basically it boils down to, Hex pays inflation through a smart contract, therefore you're not relying on new peoples' money for it to grow.
And sure, more people buying Hex doesn't generate more coins; the smart contract does. But no one cares how much Hex they have, other than in terms of how it relates to other assets (whether that be other cryptocurrencies or fiat currency). It'd be like a stock that does 2:1 splits once a year. So every year you're doubling your number of shares if you hold it. But does that mean anything or that you're getting a 100% annual return? No, because no one cares how many shares of a company they own; they care what the value of their holdings is.
So that actual value increase (and the only way you can actually make money off it) is through currency appreciation. And that absolutely requires new peoples' money to enter the so-called "box" (as SBF puts it above).
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Just make them follow similar rules to brokerages, and that would fix most of the issues. If they take peoples' cash, they have to segregate it. And any funds in crypto have to be owned by the customer, not the exchange (similar to securities).
Granted, removing a lot of the shady practices might make these things less viable, or make it uneconomical to have Western-domiciled exchanges. But so what?
And if you're worried about government expenses related to that, the costs would fall on the exchanges. They would have to pay an independent accounting firm to audit their finances to ensure they were following the rules.
none of this would stop the boss withdrawing 2 or 3 billion and catching a plane to some shady tax haven with no extradition treaty though, all of these regs depend on the bank/brokerage wanting to stay in business and fearing the consequences of getting caught breaking the rules
I mean he's right the token itself isnt a ponzi scheme but it seems like a bad investment, a sort of built-in devaluation token
I guess we'll see.
Last bull run it did a 10,000x which doesn't seem like a bad investment to me. It's dropped 95% in the bear which means anyone who bought the bottom is still at a 500+x which again is a pretty huge win.
From what I understand it's also been "gate kept" (doesn't get listed on most crypto exchanges) and is still pre-viral.
Time will tell. I'm certainly no expert and definitely not a financial advisor of any kind. I was just answering Fuzz when he asked what people's top picks are, and that is one I've been putting some money into.
Last bull run it did a 10,000x which doesn't seem like a bad investment to me. It's dropped 95% in the bear which means anyone who bought the bottom is still at a 500+x which again is a pretty huge win.
From what I understand it's also been "gate kept" (doesn't get listed on most crypto exchanges) and is still pre-viral.
Time will tell. I'm certainly no expert and definitely not a financial advisor of any kind. I was just answering Fuzz when he asked what people's top picks are, and that is one I've been putting some money into.
actually when you look a little deeper is does look like a ponzi scheme (well with the exception that he has possibly worked out a way to run a ponzi scheme that doesnt actually pay out any real money so kind of genius from a grifters point of view) as the whole thing is set up to get you to leave your money with the one dude in charge
actually when you look a little deeper is does look like a ponzi scheme (well with the exception that he has possibly worked out a way to run a ponzi scheme that doesnt actually pay out any real money so kind of genius from a grifters point of view) as the whole thing is set up to get you to leave your money with the one dude in charge
You can go on etherscan and view Hex transactions.
People sell all the time and take the cash.
I personally know two people who cashed out huge amounts.
You can go on etherscan and view Hex transactions.
People sell all the time and take the cash.
I personally know two people who cashed out huge amounts.
I mean, people buying early and dumping on new buyers isn't exactly uncommon, nor does it negate the Ponzinomic tendency of ####coins.
Lots of ####coins 10,000x if you bought at the absolute bottom when literally no one else was trading it, then held it for nearly 2 years and then sold at the absolute top for the 3 hours it peaked. The fantasy is that anyone but a handful of randos (and the devs) actually manage to do this.
