You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Brendone

The flight is not the problem. The mouth breathing dip####s are.

Are you referring to the passengers, airlines, airport authorities, security, baggage handlers, airline staff, or all of the above?

[Brendone]

In flight experience. Like Sliver said, comfort is typically a function of what you paid. Once you’ve decided how comfortable you can afford to be, the rest comes down to how stupid the people around you are.

[TheIronMaiden]

I like flying. Mostly because I don't have any expectations for comfort or convenience. I just pop in some death metal, get a little stoned, and snooze the flight away.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nah, flying is great in that it is accessible to people in a way broader wealth bracket than ever before.

You ever see those photos from the 60s when everyone flying had tons of room, the food was delicious and they were all dressed super dapper? Yeah, those planes were filled with super wealthy people.

The fancy experience is still there, but as it has always been, you have to pay for it. You can get first class. Hell, you can charter a private jet if you want.

Or, you can pay rock-bottom prices for a rock-bottom experience.

I like that it's more accessible now and cheaper than ever.

I remember paying $1600 return to Berlin in 1995 when I was 18. That's $3373 in today's dollars. I just went to Expedia and punched in that flight and I can get it today for $1377.

It just gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and has for my whole life.

The deluxe experience gets better and better and better (my wife slept in a pod to Paris last year with her work), but it doesn't come cheap.

This is bang-on. Modern air travel is a freakin' miracle! It seems beyond ridiculous to complain about the state of air travel while simultaneously expecting to fly halfway around the world for a few hundred dollars... If that's what you want, you'll have to temper your expectations some.

Piggybacking off your post, I just randomly checked Calgary to Paris, direct, in January is $600... The flight's 9hrs, so that's less than $70/hr... to be hurled through the atmosphere at 900km/h, while watching some movies and having some snacks.

FFS, it costs $15/hr to watch a movie in a theatre.

Flying doesn't have to suck.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I like flying. Mostly because I don't have any expectations for comfort or convenience. I just pop in some death metal, get a little stoned, and snooze the flight away.

95% of the “value” in flying, for me, is covering long distances in a short time. Being able to turn a 25 hour drive into 3 hour flight, or be on a different continent on the same day.

Lots to criticize and everything but when you look at what flying actually accomplishes it’s hard to be disappointed. Nobody is flying to Europe because they want to experience flying.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nah, flying is great in that it is accessible to people in a way broader wealth bracket than ever before.

You ever see those photos from the 60s when everyone flying had tons of room, the food was delicious and they were all dressed super dapper? Yeah, those planes were filled with super wealthy people.

The fancy experience is still there, but as it has always been, you have to pay for it. You can get first class. Hell, you can charter a private jet if you want.

Or, you can pay rock-bottom prices for a rock-bottom experience.

I like that it's more accessible now and cheaper than ever.

I remember paying $1600 return to Berlin in 1995 when I was 18. That's $3373 in today's dollars. I just went to Expedia and punched in that flight and I can get it today for $1377.

It just gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and has for my whole life.

The deluxe experience gets better and better and better (my wife slept in a pod to Paris last year with her work), but it doesn't come cheap.

It gets cheaper and cheaper because you get less and less. I've been flying since I was 4... hell, I remember when people still got dressed up to fly. You used to get a full complimentary meal on a flight in coach, plus the typical peanuts and a drink (soft or alcobev). They used to give you actual headphones (not even earbuds, branded headphones). One checked bag included was the norm, and carry-ons were not something your fare could preclude you from bringing with you -- I mean, you're the one doing all the work.

I get the appeal of the whole à la carte ticketing thing, but let's not pretend flying is just becoming a better and better value, there's definitely been a degradation in the service level you receive to facilitate that, and with all the talk about standing-room seating being introduced next year, the race to the bottom continues.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It gets cheaper and cheaper because you get less and less. I've been flying since I was 4... hell, I remember when people still got dressed up to fly. You used to get a full complimentary meal on a flight in coach, plus the typical peanuts and a drink (soft or alcobev). They used to give you actual headphones (not even earbuds, branded headphones). One checked bag included was the norm, and carry-ons were not something your fare could preclude you from bringing with you -- I mean, you're the one doing all the work.

I get the appeal of the whole à la carte ticketing thing, but let's not pretend flying is just becoming a better and better value, there's definitely been a degradation in the service level you receive to facilitate that, and with all the talk about standing-room seating being introduced next year, the race to the bottom continues.

This is what capitalism is all about though.

It shouldnt surprise anyone that the best airlines to fly on are the ones that are owned by royal families/ governments and aren't in a constant race to the bottom on everything.

The same thing has happened to phone apps in the last 10 years. Happening to search engines right now. Will happen to other ####.

An idea comes along, people fund the #### out of it, it explodes and makes huge amounts of money, the company starts reinvesting in optimizing the product for users to keep the momentum. This is the peak. Then the corporate #### hawks come in and snap up the stock and throw in new corporate directors to start "optimizing it" for profit. They start pinching every part of the product/ service trying to extract as much money from it as possible, or try to pivot it to produce more money somehow, etc, or they sometimes even purposely ruin a product/service so a competitor they also have an interest in can do better. They don't care at all about the user base and instead just care about money coming in.

This is why private healthcare and education are horrifically stupid ideas.

[Fuzz]

Headphones? Who here remembers the air tubes with soft tips that did nothing to prevent the hard plastic inside from torturing your ears?

[you&me]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It gets cheaper and cheaper because you get less and less. I've been flying since I was 4... hell, I remember when people still got dressed up to fly. You used to get a full complimentary meal on a flight in coach, plus the typical peanuts and a drink (soft or alcobev). They used to give you actual headphones (not even earbuds, branded headphones). One checked bag included was the norm, and carry-ons were not something your fare could preclude you from bringing with you -- I mean, you're the one doing all the work.

I get the appeal of the whole à la carte ticketing thing, but let's not pretend flying is just becoming a better and better value, there's definitely been a degradation in the service level you receive to facilitate that, and with all the talk about standing-room seating being introduced next year, the race to the bottom continues.

Well yeah, that's the point. Sliver's saying that a basic "economy" fare to Berlin in 1995 was the equivalent of $3300, vs. $1300 today... So for that $2000 in savings, you now don't get a full meal, branded headphones, as much baggage, etc... And the general public has spoken that they'll accept that trade-off.

By the same token, you can now fly business class from YYC to Frankfurt for about 10% more than the equivalent of what Sliver paid for economy 30 years ago and I guarantee that business today is better than economy in 1995, even if they had some perks back then (which pale in comparison to today's pods).

So it cost $3k to fly to Europe in relative comfort 30 years ago and you can be enormously comfortable flying to Europe today, if you want to still spend $3k to do so.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It gets cheaper and cheaper because you get less and less. I've been flying since I was 4... hell, I remember when people still got dressed up to fly. You used to get a full complimentary meal on a flight in coach, plus the typical peanuts and a drink (soft or alcobev). They used to give you actual headphones (not even earbuds, branded headphones). One checked bag included was the norm, and carry-ons were not something your fare could preclude you from bringing with you -- I mean, you're the one doing all the work.

I get the appeal of the whole à la carte ticketing thing, but let's not pretend flying is just becoming a better and better value, there's definitely been a degradation in the service level you receive to facilitate that, and with all the talk about standing-room seating being introduced next year, the race to the bottom continues.

I don't know how old you are, but I remember going to LA to visit my uncle at 4, 12, 14, etc. That would have been 1980, 1988 and 1990. People wore sweats, dude. I don't remember people dressing up. Some sad sacks would be in suits, but those were the depressing looking business guys.

But yeah, the market wants cheaper flights so they pare down services, comfort, etc. to hit a price. More people can fly that way. It's a very accessible form of travel.

My point is the deluxe experience is still there. Pay more and get more.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't know how old you are, but I remember going to LA to visit my uncle at 4, 12, 14, etc. That would have been 1980, 1988 and 1990. People wore sweats, dude. I don't remember people dressing up. Some sad sacks would be in suits, but those were the depressing looking business guys.

Yeah deregulation was '78 I think

[Jason14h]

The race to the bottom on airline pricing by cutting “perks” also is driven by how people “buy” flights.

You go online , search the flight and (usually) click on the cheapest (or cheapest within the time period / direct) you see

It’s weird people complain paying 25$ for a checked bag , not getting a drink or a meal , and paying for seat selection as being “free” previously

They were not free - they were just baked into the price

Now if there are airline duopolies or similar that price and route fix there is for sure a combo of profit “gouging” vs variable pricing

Airlines actually are some of the best for “Pay what you use” out there

Now airline passengers on the other hand …..

[undercoverbrother]

Maybe it's how much I fly that is the issue.

I am doing 2-round-trips a month.

The novelty wears off.

I fly Westjet, I pay for the Extended Comfort seats (4F or 4A)

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Maybe it's how much I fly that is the issue.

I am doing 2-round-trips a month.

The novelty wears off.

AirBus is the most aptly named company.

I feel like we were grinding on airplanes a month ago. Seriously, everyone just go get a pair of nice, over ear noise cancelling headphones, a warm sweater, and one of those dorky pillow things. The combo of this and preselecting either an aisle (if you pee a lot) or window seat (if you are a camel like me) allows you to get on the plane and promptly forget you are on it for whatever amount of time is necessary. IMO this is the only logical way to fly.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

AirBus is the most aptly named company.

I feel like we were grinding on airplanes a month ago. Seriously, everyone just go get a pair of nice, over ear noise cancelling headphones, a warm sweater, and one of those dorky pillow things. The combo of this and preselecting either an aisle (if you pee a lot) or window seat (if you are a camel like me) allows you to get on the plane and promptly forget you are on it for whatever amount of time is necessary. IMO this is the only logical way to fly.

A hoodie is a must when flying.

Easy to store stuff in the big pocket and keeps neck drafts out.

[Shazam]

Air travel is basically a fungible service. There's no real differentiation. So race to the bottom it is.

[Reggie28]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Air travel is basically a fungible service. There's no real differentiation. So race to the bottom it is.

Unless you are a frequent flyer. I frequently pass on the lowest airfare if it is not with the airline that gives me free bags, free upgraded economy seats, free food and drinks in the lounge, priority boarding and the occasional first class upgrade.

I know none of this is free, it’s baked into the repetitive flight purchases, but it’s hard to give up perks you have earned to save 5% or 10% on a single flight.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Reggie28

Unless you are a frequent flyer. I frequently pass on the lowest airfare if it is not with the airline that gives me free bags, free upgraded economy seats, free food and drinks in the lounge, priority boarding and the occasional first class upgrade.

I know none of this is free, it’s baked into the repetitive flight purchases, but it’s hard to give up perks you have earned to save 5% or 10% on a single flight.

Correct. I am forever locked into one airline and have long stopped considering alternatives.

The flight mile racket is one of the smartest things the airlines have ever come up with. And the lifetime miles angle is a notch more brilliant on top of that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Reggie28

Unless you are a frequent flyer. I frequently pass on the lowest airfare if it is not with the airline that gives me free bags, free upgraded economy seats, free food and drinks in the lounge, priority boarding and the occasional first class upgrade.

I know none of this is free, it’s baked into the repetitive flight purchases, but it’s hard to give up perks you have earned to save 5% or 10% on a single flight.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Correct. I am forever locked into one airline and have long stopped considering alternatives.

The flight mile racket is one of the smartest things the airlines have ever come up with. And the lifetime miles angle is a notch more brilliant on top of that.

True.

I have had Platinum status with Westjet for a couple of years.

It's all kinda meh.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't know how old you are, but I remember going to LA to visit my uncle at 4, 12, 14, etc. That would have been 1980, 1988 and 1990. People wore sweats, dude. I don't remember people dressing up. Some sad sacks would be in suits, but those were the depressing looking business guys.

I'm 40, but even though it was no longer required, people still dressed reasonably well for a good bit after.