Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[AC]

Have to wonder if losing our captain changes the dynamics of the group significantly too.

Lucic being the most veteran player probably changes the overall mentality now. He seemed to enjoy playing with Marchand quite a bit, but who knows how he feels about Tkachuk. There's no guarantee things are the same amongst the leadership group now, but maybe the damage has already been done as well.

[Toonage]

If they do a deal with St. Louis, and with Sutter having influence (given the recent deals) we can expect Parayko coming back. Checks all the boxes.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management...

I have checked in with Tbull8 about his source.

It is third-hand, but it is also the same guy who had information about a lot of recent acquisitions and deals. He broke the Coleman, Lewis, and Pitlick deals well before anything was made public, as well as the Lucic/Neal trade.

[Flame On]

I don't know why people are disappointed in Chucky and not the team/org surrounding him. The fact that his mild-mannered team mates were unable to find it in them to be offended by the Muzzin incident and then the staff follow up with – essentially saying they'll cherry-pick when the back him up... who'd want to commit to a team that is having trouble committing to you?
Hopefully this can work out for all.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have checked in with Tbull8 about his source.

It is third-hand, but it is also the same guy who had information about a lot of recent acquisitions and deals. He broke the Coleman, Lewis, and Pitlick deals well before anything was made public, as well as the Lucic/Neal trade.

So it's as good or better than most media insiders

[FanIn80]

That first game against Tkachuk is going to be some must-watch TV, that's for sure.

[MrMike]

Well if that’s true and we can turn Tkachuk into Eichel without giving up much else, I like it.
Rather have a big valuable part than spare futures for him.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have checked in with Tbull8 about his source.

It is third-hand, but it is also the same guy who had information about a lot of recent acquisitions and deals. He broke the Coleman, Lewis, and Pitlick deals well before anything was made public, as well as the Lucic/Neal trade.

Yikes, that is really too bad on Tkachuk and don't feel great about the Flames beating out Anaheim on Eichel if actually reliable. The only hope if Tkachuk doesn't get dealt is that rift gets worked out over the next season.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The best I think you could do from STL would be a retained Tarasenko, Kyrou and maybe a prospect or pick. Neighbors or a lotto protected 1st for example.

Especially since they know that's where he likely ends up when he's a UFA 2 years from now. They'd be paying to get him there 2 years sooner is all.

The other question would be, does Tarasenko's NTC get in the way of any possible deal?

I don't buy that Tkachuk has his heart set on playing in St. Louis over the next 4-6 years.. is it likely true that he wants to end up there at some point? Most likely, but the Tkachuk family in general seem to be after making the most money they possibly can, while they can. Whoever offer's Tkachuk the biggest deal likely lands him which certainly helps Calgary in any trade scenario.

Tkachuk could sign a 6 or 7 year extension and still sign his career ending contract in St.Louis at 30/31.

[DSIM420]

After Buffalo lost the ROR trade, I don't think they want anyone from the STL organization.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yikes, that is really too bad on Tkachuk and don't feel great about the Flames beating out Anaheim on Eichel if actually reliable. The only hope if Tkachuk doesn't get dealt is that rift gets worked out over the next season.

Interesting, because this new information has actually bolstered my confidence in the Flames making a deal for Eichel happen.

[bax]

If this is true, it really sucks. Tkachuk would be the last player I would want to move.

With that being said if the Flames can swing Tkachuk + small futures for Eichel then we will be okay.

I just don’t want to move Tkachuk in a quality vs quantity trade

[Jiri Hrdina]

I can see both sides
- Tkachuk causes a lot of chaos in some cases pokes the bear and wakes up the other team. And then doesn't rise to the challenge himself. I think there is validity in the concept of picking your fights
- But this is a team that collectively hasn't always had a good compete level particularly in important games.

So both elements are concerning.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

I can't confirm the aspects of the Eichel trade.

But I have also heard from a pretty trustworthy source that was close to the team that the rift with Tkachuk was real, and that he has mentioned his desire to play in a US market.

Mods can PM me to verify my source as well if they'd like. But it does seem there is a lot of fire to go with the smoke around Tkachuk wanting out of Calgary.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by DSIM420

After Buffalo lost the ROR trade, I don't think they want anyone from the STL organization.

STL has no cap for Thomas. Thomas would be an excellent rebuilding piece and an ideal C/RW flanking Cozens:

CGY: Eichel + Tarasenko
STL: Tkachuk
BUF: Monahan, Thomas, +++ (+’s coming from Calgary and St. Louis)

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Interesting, because this new information has actually bolstered my confidence in the Flames making a deal for Eichel happen.

If Anaheim doesn't want to give up one of their blue chip prospects then sure but Calgary cannot beat an offer from them if they do. Obviously they have refused so far or else a trade would be done. Vegas can be beat for sure.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So what's the issue then?

Tkachuk over reacted to the team not coming to his defense and quit on the group?

Or ...

Leadership doesn't want the team's agitator to agitate?

Both are a huge concern, the second one won't be fixed by moving Tkachuk. But perhaps it's deep enough that keeping Tkachuk isn't an option.

Extremely concerning, as it speaks to the level of engagement of the players within the locker room. However, this is very unsurprising.

Team sports is all about trust, and Tkachuk trusting his teammates, in a team meeting he reached out to his players and said back me up, and they turned their back on him. I think Tkachuk knows what it takes to win, and now he sees this team as quite frankly a bunch of disinterested losers. Why would he play hard and get in the grill of the opposition if his teammates are not going to be there to support him whenever? Tkachuk wasn't buying into the indifferent complacency that has seeped into the core of the locker room, and has been doing everything in his power to drag his team into a fight, and time after time the team let him down. Boston supports Marchand through all of his complete insanity, Ducks supported Perry, Canucks teammates adored Burrows and Kesler. The milquetoast flames core couldn't be bothered to support the one player who was actually exciting to watch. Culture is incredibly hard to change, and Tkachuk is finding this out first hand, I don't blame him for wanting to leave and whatever team gets him will be absolutely thrilled with having him on their team.

[CroFlames]

Tbull's post is probably enough of a rumor to start its own thread. Pretty substantial now that the mod has verified.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I can see both sides
- Tkachuk causes a lot of chaos in some cases pokes the bear and wakes up the other team. And then doesn't rise to the challenge himself. I think there is validity in the concept of picking your fights
- But this is a team that collectively hasn't always had a good compete level particularly in important games.

So both elements are concerning.

Yeah, Tkachuk hasn't killed it in big games himself but he is one of the more entertaining players on the team and it is pretty disheartening to hear that he wants out. The Flames aren't skilled enough to rely purely on skill and need another element to their game. Embrace the rat identity and go for it. It would be more entertaining if nothing else.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

Assuming all this is factual, then IMO we should be looking at separate trades for Eichel (one in involving Monahan) and Tkachuk (one involving a speedier top six winger and some futures returning) rather than a 3-way deal. Of course those added futures could be flipped for Eichel.

I want the Flames to be a skilled, high IQ team, but also a much faster team than what's been on the ice the last six or seven years. Monahan and Tkachuk have been the two slowest elements in our top six so replacing them with, for instance Jack Eichel and Chris Kreider, would be outstanding.

I'd our chances with roughly this forward group

Gaudreau - Eichel - Coleman
Kreider - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - Ruzicka - Phillips

Maybe it's a piece short at 1RW, but plenty of playoff teams are a piece short, that's what deadline deals, or maybe even a Caufield-style Coronato signing, are for.