The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A. Yes, the Hamilton trade, the Tanev signing and Markstrom made the team better.

Treliving has made some good moves. Unfortunately those good moves have been countered by some really bad ones. The bad ones have outweighed the good, and by a substantial margin. As a result, the team has trended in the wrong direction and got progressively worse, which is how executives get judged on their performance. Did you achieve greater success than failure? Did you achieve specific goals of the organization? Did you make the place better or worse from year-to-year. That is how leaders get measured, and the hard truth here is the Flames have been one failure after another under Treliving. I think it is why the team keeps publicly lowering the bar of what success is. Winning a Stanley Cup, or building a championship quality team, are no longer goals. "Making the playoffs and seeing what happens" is now the goal of the organization. Lame and exactly why the fans have no enthusiasm for this team any more.

B. Yes, Treliving has made mistakes, and the team hasn’t improved enough over his term. That’s why I voted for termination in the poll.

Glad we can agree that the team needs new leadership. Treliving is a nice guy, but he's just not a good judge of talent and doesn't seem capable of driving the team forward to any possible success.

C. You can criticize him without having to think that every little bad gthing is on him and nothing good is because of him.

Unfortunately, that's his job. He has the ultimate say in decisions and the weight of that responsibility lands firmly on his head. Yes, the guy has made some good moves here and there. But he has managed to make some just horrible decisions to go with them that have countered any good he's done along the way. He makes a great trade and gets two important players under great contracts... but then wastes those talents and windows of opportunities by bringing in guys that can't coach. Brings in some good free agents, but loses players that are better or would have provided depth needed to make the team better. One step forward, two steps back. It's the new dance craze that Brad Treliving just can't get enough of! Now he's painted himself into a corner on contracts with his two best forwards and the team is in tough. He's just a terrible manager and the team is getting worse with each year he remains in the seat. There is just no way you can look at this team, look at the outcomes, and not come to the conclusion of where the changes have to start.

But I digress. This a threat about the Legend of Sam Bennett. We should be talking about what an amazing player Jonathan Huberdeau is and how badly the Flames need a player like him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Good players at any position are hard to find. PERIOD. The Flames are proof of that.



This is bull####. They got lucky having Tkachuk fall to them in a draft, and then an undersized 4th round pick, from long before the current management team arrived on the scene, turning into dominant player, but beyond that they have been unable to find #### in a pile of of cow patties. Flames have shown an inability to find anything, no matter what the pom pom waivers claim. Treliving has relied on luck to improve the team, not any insight into drafting or trading for players. This team lacks players of quality at every position, and they are paper thin. It's exactly why the fanbase has so little confidence or enthusiasm for this team.

OK ...

Need to label again I see.

"I'm going to go on this giant over the top hyperbolic tirade, and in it I'm going to label anyone that would walk back my soliloquy as pom pom waivers ...

(not wavers, which I guess would mean they'd be giving up the right to have pom poms?)

... to make sure everyone knows that there isn't any argument"

And you've taken away credit for drafting in the top six, that's actually pretty funny. Anyone that gets a player at any point has him fall to them. Doesn't take much skill to draft in the top six, but you can't use it against them either.

They've been drafting just fine for the last several years though. The issue is their middling standings position and not enough top picks.

Can't believe two people actually used a thanks on that!

[TOfan]

^^one of the more ridiculous over the top posts in recent memory. The past 12hrs or so, Lanny has really been on a roll.

Then again this is coming from the guy who for months argued till he was blue in the face that the Flames should trade Gaudreau for Vorachek, recently demoted Morgan Frost and some other part. Yikes.

We’ve all been wrong some of the time, or most of the time, but there are certainly a few posters here, who are on the upper echelon of activity, who really like to pretend that they have it figured out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

doesn't make for great conversation.

This is the sum of Lanny's posts in a nutshell.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Glad we can agree that the team needs new leadership. Treliving is a nice guy, but he's just not a good judge of talent and doesn't seem capable of driving the team forward to any possible success...

This is maybe an inconsequential thing, but it is becoming really grating how so many people have become accustomed to prefacing their criticism with meaningless platitudes like "he's a nice guy, but..." It is so obviously a cover for the weakness of the argument, and used as a way to deflect or dismiss valid counterpoints. Especially in an instance like this, when it is applied to a public figure that likely none of us have met, or spent sufficient time with to make an informed opinion about his character. The assertion about how "nice" Treliving may or may not be is even less informed than our opinions about how he goes about doing his job.


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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Calgary has Hanifin and Lidholm on GREAT contracts
Carolina has ...........

Its an obvious Tre win so say otherwise is ridiculous

Adam Fox wasn't signing here or there...Blame Gary for the loophole but he was only going to NY where the old man played. No GM in the league could have made Fox sign in Calgary so his value was next to nothing.

A little bit off topic but I bet that is his last Norris...he got a ton of points against the Flyers who had the worst goaltending recent memory. Rangers were putting up 7 or 8 a game over a stretch.

All of last seasons awards are a little * IMO. When you play the say team 4 or 5 times in a week and they happen to have injuries or beer league goaltending it really can pad stats. Ask Nurse

100%

Arguing that Treliving didn’t make that without knowing:

A) Hamilton wanted out
B) Fox was not going to sign
C) Ferland was going to be a UFA at the end of season who had serious injury concerns and was likely to be offered more than what the Flames wanted to pay

Is just being willfully ignorant.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They've been drafting just fine for the last several years though. The issue is their middling standings position and not enough top picks.

Easily the biggest issue for this franchise, IMO.

Never bad enough to get a top 3 pick, never good enough to be a serious contender. The Flames are just………there. And here again this season it looks like a team that will be sniffing around the playoffs, but are very far away from being any kind of serious threat. And another middle draft pick. Rinse and repeat.

[Bingo]

Given the negativity this off season I'm almost expecting a 7-8 finish in the West and then two upsets to the conference final where they lose in 7

Just seems like that's what CP will get in the reverse karma world.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Easily the biggest issue for this franchise, IMO.

Never bad enough to get a top 3 pick, never good enough to be a serious contender. The Flames are just………there. And here again this season it looks like a team that will be sniffing around the playoffs, but are very far away from being any kind of serious threat. And another middle draft pick. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, I’ve wanted a tank before, but they’d never embraced it. Aside from Jankowski and, say, Chucko, I haven’t had an issue with who they drafted ever, and sometimes they’ve downright been great picks at the position.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Given the negativity this off season I'm almost expecting a 7-8 finish in the West and then two upsets to the conference final where they lose in 7

Just seems like that's what CP will get in the reverse karma world.

The Flames are definitely a team that loves to defy expectations, for better or for worse.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

OK ...

Need to label again I see.

"I'm going to go on this giant over the top hyperbolic tirade, and in it I'm going to label anyone that would walk back my soliloquy as pom pom waivers ...

(not wavers, which I guess would mean they'd be giving up the right to have pom poms?)

... to make sure everyone knows that there isn't any argument"

And you've taken away credit for drafting in the top six, that's actually pretty funny. Anyone that gets a player at any point has him fall to them. Doesn't take much skill to draft in the top six, but you can't use it against them either.

They've been drafting just fine for the last several years though. The issue is their middling standings position and not enough top picks.

Can't believe two people actually used a thanks on that!

I think you overvalue thanks. I’ve seen many posts here, and I still have plenty to spare. Other people likely are similar. Heck, 2 people thanked 2598 and that was a pretty lousy post

I thanked it for the simple fact that I agreed with one particular sentiment - that, all else being equal, if the Flames didn’t draft Johnny 10 years ago, this team would be pretty awful.

I don’t have the same negativity towards the season that you point out, in 2608, myself. I think the coach will likely get them in the playoffs. There are still key pieces from the core that achieved in 2019, and I’m excited to see what Sutter can do with them. Unfortunately, I really don’t like the proven D mobility, but if he can get guys like Andersson and Kylington to play to their potential, with the stay at home / mobile pairing structure, he could salvage a lot of careers.

And back on topic, should the Flames crap the bed, we can all have fun watching Bennett in Florida

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And back on topic, should the Flames crap the bed, we can all have fun watching Bennett in Florida

Lol. Watching Bennett is not fun, I did it for 7 seasons. It was annoying.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Lol. Watching Bennett is not fun, I did it for 7 seasons. It was annoying.

(Read in Norm MacDonald’s voice)

You should see him in Florida!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think you overvalue thanks. I’ve seen many posts here, and I still have plenty to spare. Other people likely are similar. Heck, 2 people thanked 2598 and that was a pretty lousy post

I thanked it for the simple fact that I agreed with one particular sentiment - that, all else being equal, if the Flames didn’t draft Johnny 10 years ago, this team would be pretty awful.

I don’t have the same negativity towards the season that you point out, in 2608, myself. I think the coach will likely get them in the playoffs. There are still key pieces from the core that achieved in 2019, and I’m excited to see what Sutter can do with them. Unfortunately, I really don’t like the proven D mobility, but if he can get guys like Andersson and Kylington to play to their potential, with the stay at home / mobile pairing structure, he could salvage a lot of careers.

And back on topic, should the Flames crap the bed, we can all have fun watching Bennett in Florida

This is ridiculous.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is ridiculous.

Well, they are average at best right now with him so...

But I guess there would be a butterfly effect where the team probably would've been worse 2015-2017 for sure so they would've drafted higher. Then again, this is the flames so they probably would've found a way to draft 10-17 each year hard to say.

Gaudreau is probably one of the top 5 most talented wingers ever to play here, maybe top 3. Not having him would've been a bad scene for sure. Flames fans really don't appreciate him enough imo. Not his fault his team is managed by a bottom 5 management team since he got here

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[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TOfan

^^one of the more ridiculous over the top posts in recent memory. The past 12hrs or so, Lanny has really been on a roll.

Then again this is coming from the guy who for months argued till he was blue in the face that the Flames should trade Gaudreau for Vorachek, recently demoted Morgan Frost and some other part. Yikes.

We’ve all been wrong some of the time, or most of the time, but there are certainly a few posters here, who are on the upper echelon of activity, who really like to pretend that they have it figured out.

I'm beginning to think Lanny learned to argue in the Korean War.

‘Die on ALL the hills!’

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is ridiculous.

He is probably being serious and sarcastic. Johnny has meant a lot to this team and brought a lot of excitement to the city.

[powderjunkie]

The Gaudreau butterfly effect thing is interesting to consider. Presumably we keep the 2015 pick and it's a bit higher, but the odds of an impact player are pretty high anywhere in the top 20:

Spoiler!

McDavid
Eichel
Marner
Rantanen
Provorov
Werenski
Barzal
Connor
Chabot

Hanifin
Meier
Gurianov
J EE

Debrusk
Crouse
Zacha
D Strome

Zboril
Senyshyn
Bad Svechnikov

85% chance of a decent roster player; 50%+ chance of a very good or better player.

Of course everything from there on is impossible to predict, but we're probably not making dumb trades like Elliott (Kyrou? Hajek? Debrincat?) and have a bunch of other 2nds, too.

[Enoch Root]

It isn't just the 2015 draft - without Gaudreau, we are likely drafting higher in the next several drafts. And we aren't likely trading away draft picks (likely the opposite).

The draft is a self-correcting exercise. Saying "how bad would we be without that guy" is completely pointless.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

He is probably being serious and sarcastic. Johnny has meant a lot to this team and brought a lot of excitement to the city.

Sure, but by saying ‘all things being equal, if the Flames didn’t draft JG 10 years ago they would be awful’ suggests to me that the Flames would be exactly the same today, but without Gaudreau. That’s nonsense. It means nothing.