The Legend of Sam Bennett

[GioforPM]

So anything good for the Flames is dumb luck, anything bad is Treliving’s incompetence. Got it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So anything good for the Flames is dumb luck, anything bad is Treliving’s incompetence. Got it.

Stop being a pom pom waver you pom pom waver.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

pom pom waivers claim.

Wait when did Pom Pom go on waivers and who claimed him?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So anything good for the Flames is dumb luck, anything bad is Treliving’s incompetence. Got it.

Quick. Outline what Treliving has done that was "planned." Then outline the moves that fell into his lap. Gaudreau? Already dropped into his lap. Tkachuk? A no brainer that dropped into his lap (thanks Vancouver!). Your turn. Tell me where Treliving had a plan or used those Jedi mind tricks to make this team better.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Nm

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Quick. Outline what Treliving has done that was "planned." Then outline the moves that fell into his lap. Gaudreau? Already dropped into his lap. Tkachuk? A no brainer that dropped into his lap (thanks Vancouver!). Your turn. Tell me where Treliving had a plan or used those Jedi mind tricks to make this team better.

The Hamilton trade for a RW/C and a defenceman to take Hamilton’s place. Planned in reaction to the stalling of Bennett at C. Pretty sure he thought of that one himself. Then he signed each to great contracts.

Signing a strong defensive D and the best available G.

Traded non-developing guys like Sven and Granlund, picked up picks which turned into players.

Those are two examples.

You think a plan is some immutable blueprint. That’s not how GMs work. They have an idea of how they want their team to play, and work little by little to get there. And half the time things don’t work and they have to react. There’s lots of evidence that Treliving has a concept of how the team should look a new what it needs. Execution of that concept has been lacking because he hasn’t successfully identified the right players in a bunch of instances - Neal, Hamonic, Brouwer.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Quick. Outline what Treliving has done that was "planned." Then outline the moves that fell into his lap. Gaudreau? Already dropped into his lap. Tkachuk? A no brainer that dropped into his lap (thanks Vancouver!). Your turn. Tell me where Treliving had a plan or used those Jedi mind tricks to make this team better.

Mangiapane? Dube isn't too bad. I dunno man, it seems that you seem to want to see things a certain way and nothing will change your mind. Either way, it doesn't make for great conversation.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Quick. Outline what Treliving has done that was "planned." Then outline the moves that fell into his lap. Gaudreau? Already dropped into his lap. Tkachuk? A no brainer that dropped into his lap (thanks Vancouver!). Your turn. Tell me where Treliving had a plan or used those Jedi mind tricks to make this team better.

You're making absurd arguments that could be applied to any GM in the league.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Hamilton trade for a RW/C and a defenceman to take Hamilton’s place. Planned in reaction to the stalling of Bennett at C. Pretty sure he thought of that one himself. Then he signed each to great contracts.

Gave up the best player in the deal, and a future Norris trophy winner (hey if people get to use that as a drafting success it also gets to be used as managerial failure). Those players have contributed to the team getting progressively worse. Good players on good contracts, but the team got worse in the long term.

Signing a strong defensive D and the best available G.

A player the fans were pissed about signing and hoping, right up until the protection list, that he would be left unprotected. We don't want to talk about the losses of Giordano or Brodie for nothing here do we. Team got worse on the blueline.

Traded non-developing guys like Sven and Granlund, picked up picks which turned into players.

I wish he had taken this pragmatic approach to asset management when dealing with actual NHL players instead of marginal assets where future marginal assets were picked. What about letting solid top half of the lineup players leave for nothing?

You think a plan is some immutable blueprint. That’s not how GMs work. They have an idea of how they want their team to play, and work little by little to get there. And half the time things don’t work and they have to react. There’s lots of evidence that Treliving has a concept of how the team should look a new what it needs. Execution of that concept has been lacking because he hasn’t successfully identified the right players in a bunch of instances - Neal, Hamonic, Brouwer.

Which clearly means he sucks at identifying players to execute this plan and improve the team. He's done nothing but make the team worse since taking over. He was given the foundation for a good team and some how managed to piss this away. And you want to give him credit for that? It's his job to make the team better, not run it into the ground.

Seriously, if you don't have a five and ten year plan that is updated year-to-year, what the #### are you doing in that position? If you can't adapt on the fly, GTFO right now. That is what I was told when I tried to use a pandemic as an explanation about not supply chain challenges caused by COVID. An executive officer is expected to have response plans for everything under their purview. If you don't have a plan to deal with something as simple as a player who is prepared to go to free agency, and recoup a return for that investment, you're a ####ty executive. The fact the big guy can't deal with these matters is a condemnation of his ability to do his job and clearly explains why the Flames are heading in the wrong direction.

[powderjunkie]

Is the hole at RW even a very significant factor in this team's failure? You could drop peak Iggy or Gordie Howe onto the team and it would certainly be a lot better...but unless they're playing for league min. it would come at the expense of another roster slot.


The puzzle pieces simply weren't good enough and/or they didn't fit together very well.


But, seeing a player succeed (albeit with flaws) elsewhere, it is fair to wonder if they could have been developed/deployed differently.

[GioforPM]

If you can’t give Treliving credit for the Hamilton trade, you are just making up arguments.

Again, your idea of a GM’s “plan” is unrealistic and not how any actual GM operates. Is Treliving’s pro scouting good? Nope. That IMO is the main failing in this regime. But you are really stretching to make everything Treliving’s fault and by fail,in to acknowledge any positives at all, you merely detract from your argument.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

G
A player the fans were pissed about signing and hoping, right up until the protection list, that he would be left unprotected.

First who cares what fans think. What matters is how a player performs.
Second yes there was some thought of him being left exposed but not after he performed so well.

When you spin things this way it really makes it seem like you are going out of your way to criticize the GM.

There are all sorts of valid criticisms. No need to make up imaginary ones.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Was he talking about...........Tanev? The team's best d-man last year and arguably the best defensive d-man in the league last season?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If you can’t give Treliving credit for the Hamilton trade, you are just making up arguments.

Again, your idea of a GM’s “plan” is unrealistic and not how any actual GM operates. Is Treliving’s pro scouting good? Nope. That IMO is the main failing in this regime. But you are really stretching to make everything Treliving’s fault and by fail,in to acknowledge any positives at all, you merely detract from your argument.

Did he make the team better? I don't think so. Not many people that look at the league as whole think so either. My idea of a GM's plan is exactly what is expected. If X condition does not exist, move to Y. You're not only making excuses for his failures, all you're doing is sniffing Treliving's farts. His job is to make the team better, which he has failed at. He has not shown he can make moves with a plan out more than a season at a time. That is not how you build a winner. You can't continually bleed away valuable assets and replace them with diminishing returns. You can't continually make bad free agent signings. You can't continually hire bad coaches. That has been the modus operandi of the Flames' GM. Argue against the fact that the team has headed in the wrong direction year-after-year under Treliving. There is a reason why no one - the experts, the media, or the fans - like this team. It's got nothing going for it and only has potential to get worse. Who is ultimately responsible for that?

[djsFlames]

Wow, stupid thread title is stupid.

What's wrong with you people!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Did he make the team better? I don't think so. Not many people that look at the league as whole think so either. My idea of a GM's plan is exactly what is expected. If X condition does not exist, move to Y. You're not only making excuses for his failures, all you're doing is sniffing Treliving's farts. His job is to make the team better, which he has failed at. He has not shown he can make moves with a plan out more than a season at a time. That is not how you build a winner. You can't continually bleed away valuable assets and replace them with diminishing returns. You can't continually make bad free agent signings. You can't continually hire bad coaches. That has been the modus operandi of the Flames' GM. Argue against the fact that the team has headed in the wrong direction year-after-year under Treliving. There is a reason why no one - the experts, the media, or the fans - like this team. It's got nothing going for it and only has potential to get worse. Who is ultimately responsible for that?

A. Yes, the Hamilton trade, the Tanev signing and Markstrom made the team better.

B. Yes, Treliving has made mistakes, and the team hasn’t improved enough over his term. That’s why I voted for termination in the poll.

C. You can criticize him without having to think that every little bad gthing is on him and nothing good is because of him.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

(hey if people get to use that as a drafting success it also gets to be used as managerial failure)
.

Not really. That ****stain was never going to play here. You'd have to be one hell of a Debbie.

[blender]

Lanny, you are taking this too personally. Let it go; we will all feel better

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by blender

Lanny, you are taking this too personally. Let it go; we will all feel better

^ that’s an ironic and terrible post.

Lanny is talking about the topic at hand, while that post is taking about him personally

[dino7c]

Calgary has Hanifin and Lidholm on GREAT contracts
Carolina has ...........

Its an obvious Tre win so say otherwise is ridiculous

Adam Fox wasn't signing here or there...Blame Gary for the loophole but he was only going to NY where the old man played. No GM in the league could have made Fox sign in Calgary so his value was next to nothing.

A little bit off topic but I bet that is his last Norris...he got a ton of points against the Flyers who had the worst goaltending recent memory. Rangers were putting up 7 or 8 a game over a stretch.

All of last seasons awards are a little * IMO. When you play the say team 4 or 5 times in a week and they happen to have injuries or beer league goaltending it really can pad stats. Ask Nurse