Schools Req'd to notify parents before teaching evolution

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I don't condone the state forcing people to adhere to government cirriculum.

I think they should be free to teach all established theories, facts, and opinions on all sides. Multiple viewpoints, promote discussion and real learning. Hell, teach Creationism as a theory too, its so full of holes and obvious issues, no one will take it seriously over darwinian evolution (as well as others). Sometimes there's no right answer (at least not yet), and pulling children/teenagers out means they never get the chance to come up with their best solution and join the debate.

Ummm, he respectfully disagrees'

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

However, I think in a truly free society, ignorance can't be acceptable. How can people make good decisions when they have no idea what they are talking about.

Well some of the "smartest" people i know dropped out of High School, some of the dumbest got degrees up the ying yang..not sure education is the answer for everyone...seems to be more of a genetic thing

[Finny61]

creationism and evolution to your everyday kid is probably the equivalent of the belief of the above easter bunny and santa claus, taught to believe one thing by parents, except they find out down the road on the internet or through friends in this case that there is a vast wealth of knowledge, theories, theology and science out there and they then shape themselves to how they feel or what they wish to test. When I was in school (secular) no one really cared about testing science, they cared about bunsen burners and how big they could make the flame. Once kids get to a certain age they will figure out for themselves that there options, the only ones we should be concerned about are the kids that get locked away or sheltered by their parents from learning anything and everything. You can't stop a kid from being curious, this Bill isn't productive I can agree but in the big picture I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it, let the hype die down a little.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well some of the "smartest" people i know dropped out of High School, some of the dumbest got degrees up the ying yang..not sure education is the answer for everyone...seems to be more of a genetic thing

Yep, but at least they had the opportunity to make their own choices, which, for some included dropping out of high school and making a go of it on their own. Our education system is far from perfect and really only geared to a certain type of student.

Point is, the choice is theirs, not someone elses. I think we can agree that public education needs to have more options and class types for young people, not less because their parent might disagree.

[Thor]

I have an extensive response on this from my email to the Liberals, as well as the NDP responded (but I don't have that email on this computer.)

It has their response as well as the transcript of the debate in the Alberta legislature, its somewhat lengthy but very interesting to read.

I think it would take a number of posts to get it all, would anyone be interested in reading the transcript?

BTW heres the Liberal reply to my email:

Thank you for your letter regarding Bill 44 – The Human Rights, Citizenship, and Multicultural Amendment Act 2009. Alberta’s Official Opposition has received many letters on this controversial bill and it is my privilege to respond to your concerns.

The Alberta Liberal Caucus is extremely concerned with the potential ramifications of Bill 44. As this bill will give parents the right to remove their children from classes that deal with sexual orientation or with religion, many Albertans have expressed concerns that children may be pulled from classes dealing with concepts such as evolution. In addition, many of Alberta’s teachers are worried that they may be brought before a human rights tribunal should a parent lodge a complaint against them. Minister Blackett, Minister for Culture and Community Spirit, has commented that concerns and objections raised regarding the possible ramifications of the parental opt-out clause in Bill 44 were “not the intent” of the legislation. We in the Alberta Liberal Caucus find this argument ridiculous - the unintended consequences of legislation are just as real and important as the intended consequences.

The Stelmach Administration consulted with Christian groups and lobbyists in forming this bill but did not consult with the Alberta Teacher’s Association. This is concerning. Government is not listening to teachers on legislation that will be affecting the way that they can teach Alberta’s children. The Alberta Teacher’s Association has asked for Minister Blackett to completely remove section 11.1 of Bill 44 (the parental opt-out clause). The Alberta Liberal Caucus put forward an amendment to remove section 11.1 from Bill 44 – unfortunately, this amendment was rejected by the government.

As Alberta’s Official Opposition, the Alberta Liberal Caucus actively challenged the Stelmach Administration on Bill 44 (I have included several recent excerpts from Question Period with this letter). We called for a free vote on this bill, introduced several amendments, and debated the bill extensively in the Legislature (taking the debate past midnight on two separate occasions). Despite our best efforts the bill was ultimately passed, with every government MLA voting in favour of Bill 44.

Thank you again for writing. Letters such as yours help us to be more effective as Alberta’s Official Opposition.

Sincerely,

Amanda Krumins
Public Affairs Coordinator
Alberta Liberal Caucus

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well some of the "WISest" people i know dropped out of High School, some of the UNWISest got degrees up the ying yang..not sure education is the answer for everyone...seems to be more of a genetic thing

Corrected

This is not a shot at education. But a shot at those who think a degree instills intelligence. It only instills a piece of paper.

Intelligence is hereditary
Wisdom is gained

[Azure]

I wouldn't believe anything a politician tries to tell you about another politician and the legislation they're trying to get passed.

Parental rights should always supersede the rights of the 'state' so if some parents actually think that pulling their kids from sex-ed, or certain science classes will serve some kind of purpose, let them.

This whole bill is strange though. Here I thought Farmer Ed was supposed to be the moderate one, and he's turning out to not only be the extremely stupid one, but the fundamentalist as well.

[Ozy_Flame]

On a related note, the Progressive Group for Independent Business (PGIB) is bringing Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh to town to help raise money with the intention of building a war chest to convert Calgary City Council to a conservative-dominated, Rick McIver-inspired governing body.

Perhaps Steddy Eddie can be a keynote speaker alongside them? Would seem to fit the bill.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

On a related note, the Progressive Group for Independent Business (PGIB) is bringing Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh to town to help raise money with the intention of building a war chest to convert Calgary City Council to a conservative-dominated, Rick McIver-inspired governing body.

Perhaps Steddy Eddie can be a keynote speaker alongside them? Would seem to fit the bill.

As opposed to a bunch of spend-happy socialists?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by peter12

As opposed to a bunch of spend-happy socialists?

McIver used to be an executive for PGIB.

PGIB prides themselves on opinions from people like Coulter and Limbaugh.

Spend-happy socialists or far right-wing fundamentalists?

You choose your lesser of two evils.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

McIver used to be an executive for PGIB.

PGIB prides themselves on opinions from people like Coulter and Limbaugh.

Spend-happy socialists or far right-wing fundamentalists?

You choose your lesser of two evils.

I'd like to hold onto my money when I'm getting screwed thanks.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd like to hold onto my money when I'm getting screwed thanks.

To each his own.

I prefer having Calatrava bridges than not.

[CaptainCrunch]

They should run this city like a true democracy. If I don't want frivalous spending I shouldn't have to support it with my tax dollars.

If the city wants these bridges, they should find private funding from the tourism companies, I mean aren't these things going to bring in tourists by the million.

Or put a toll box at each end, so if you use them you can pay for them.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

McIver used to be an executive for PGIB.

PGIB prides themselves on opinions from people like Coulter and Limbaugh.

Spend-happy socialists or far right-wing fundamentalists?

You choose your lesser of two evils.

They both have to run for election. I'll hold onto my money,thanks. It's not like a right-wing city council would be a bad thing... what more can they do except cut taxes?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They should run this city like a true democracy. If I don't want frivalous spending I shouldn't have to support it with my tax dollars.

If the city wants these bridges, they should find private funding from the tourism companies, I mean aren't these things going to bring in tourists by the million.

Or put a toll box at each end, so if you use them you can pay for them.

Maybe write to Steady Eddie and tell him to stop providing provincial funds for the bridges then? Just a thought.

This thread is quickly getting derailed to an already beaten-to-death topic.

Let's get back to discussing far right-wing government bills, of which I vehemently oppose.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by peter12

As opposed to a bunch of spend-happy socialists?

Ideally, both the Provincial Government and City Council would be socially moderate, and fiscally conservative.

In the absence of such options, I'd prefer not to be taxed to death to fund rampant incompetence. Next to Druh Farrell, Ann Coulter is starting to look good.

[Azure]

As opposed to far left-wing government bills, which only accomplish one thing.....spend more money than the government has?

The strength of the economy lies in the hands of the working people, not the government. Let those people keep more of their money, and you have a stronger economy.

There is a reason why the Soviets struggled for years to have any decent crop output despite having some of the best crop-growing land in the world.

And there is a reason why the British, despite not being able to grow enough food to feed themselves for over century now, have never had supply issues, when countries like the USSR, struggled for years to feed their own population.

There is a reason why price controls on electricity in California near the turn of the millennium led to power shortages and blackouts state wide. Thanks for far left-wing government imposed price controls, public utility companies were paying more for electricity than they were getting from the consumer. This led to numerous companies going bankrupt, and as a result, several blackouts.

Or even more recently, California having to threaten to resort to billions in budget cuts because the government couldn't control spending.

Thanks, but I'll take a government that stays the hell out of the economy, and a government that doesn't intrude into my private life, and on my job, and regulates how much money I can make, or what I pay for utilities or food.....any day over a government that wastes taxpayer money year after year.

Of course, there are numerous other examples of how government intervention, or increased government spending led to disasters. There is a reason both China and India, the biggest emerging economies in the world have gone to a free market style approach.

The problem is the general person can't see beyond stage 1. If at stage 1 the government imposes price controls on electricity, and forces the utility companies to operate at a loss, the only thing the average person sees is their monthly bill where they pay LESS for electricity. Nevermind stage 2 where the power companies go bankrupt, or stage 3 where there are numerous blackouts, or stage 4 where power companies back up and move elsewhere, leading to less tax revenue, or stage 5 where the loss of tax revenue by the state leads to a budget crisis, or stage 6 where the budget crisis leads to HUGE cuts to the budget, not to mention numerous public employees losing their jobs.

All of this has happened before, and all of this has happened again. And until the voters demand a government that can find the perfect 'spot' between too much invervetion, and not enough intervention, governments will continue to operate outside of its means.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Maybe write to Steady Eddie and tell him to stop providing provincial funds for the bridges then? Just a thought.

This thread is quickly getting derailed to an already beaten-to-death topic.

Let's get back to discussing far right-wing government bills, of which I vehemently oppose.

You do know where the provincial funds come from, at the end of the day, I'm paying a price for their stupidity, not only am I paying a price but my kids and their kids will be to.

Its nice to be a well paid politician who has no sense of reality especially in a recession like the bunch of lunatics running this city. But the sad thing is it will be past the point of getting rid of these bridges and these parking fees and all of the other wastefull spending when these bozo's are bounced out of office.

I think that there should be a right to recall governments in between elections if they're wasting money of resources.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You do know where the provincial funds come from, at the end of the day, I'm paying a price for their stupidity, not only am I paying a price but my kids and their kids will be to.

Well this is what happens when voter apathy rules the roost.

If you think this City Council is a crapshoot, then I would certainly hope that you, your entire family and all your friends will be voting in the next election. If Calgary acheives anything less than half of eligible voters given the sheer anger at Council right now, we'll be the biggest hypocrites in the democratic world.

I think Council has done fairly well given the circumstances of a City bursting at the seams and then suddenly stuck in a recession bubble. Long-term planning is far more healthy for our city at this point than knee-jerk reactions to market corrections. I think we need to stay the course, but that's just my opinion.

But again, lets reserve Council discussion for another thread.