[News Roundup] Garbage Bag Day Thread

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Yes, rather emphatically, I think we should all take our and our employee's health a lot more seriously, and that extends to everyday jobs. The culture of "working/playing" through serious injuries/pain (often with aid of opiates) will always be a toxic construct to me. As much as he's an adult, these guys are imprinted upon from an early age that they should grin and bear it and are often expected to do so by those around them, as most young men are. It's bull####

Seems like you’re over thinking this, he wanted to play, the doctors probably assessed the risks and he decided to take those risks

The opiates thing is another story. But I don’t see anything about that here

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

It's a message board, I have an opinion in contravention to your views. You're more than welcome to put me on ignore, nobody is white knighting for anything on an anonymous forum.

You posted an opinion and I posted my own in counter. I never said anything negative and the notion that you want people to put you on ignore because they don't agree with your opinion is juvenile and absurd. You're welcome to share your opinion, others are welcome to respond with their own, on the topic and the basis for your own opinion.

I don't think that there is an epidemic of forcing players to play through injury which will culminate in longterm iniuries that make us look back on it like we did CTE and head injuries. I think thats ridiculous. I don't know what anyone can say to "agree" with you as I still don't know what point you're trying to make. All injuries should be assessed by a 3rd party Dr. and player opinion has no bearing on the decision?

I also don't understand why you're so focused on a topic you created that is the definition of making a mountain out of a mole hill. That's where the white knighting comes in because it's not an issue that anyone discusses because it isn't an issue. To make it one for...reasons apparently about longterm player health is white knighting. Look how thoughtful I am, this is a big issue trust me! Here's an example from 21 years ago to prove it!

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Groot

You posted an opinion and I posted my own in counter. I never said anything negative and the notion that you want people to put you on ignore because they don't agree with your opinion is juvenile and absurd. You're welcome to share your opinion, others are welcome to respond with their own, on the topic and the basis for your own opinion.

I don't think that there is an epidemic of forcing players to play through injury which will culminate in longterm iniuries that make us look back on it like we did CTE and head injuries. I think thats ridiculous. I don't know what anyone can say to "agree" with you as I still don't know what point you're trying to make. All injuries should be assessed by a 3rd party Dr. and player opinion has no bearing on the decision?

I also don't understand why you're so focused on a topic you created that is the definition of making a mountain out of a mole hill. That's where the white knighting comes in because it's not an issue that anyone discusses because it isn't an issue. To make it one for...reasons apparently about longterm player health is white knighting. Look how thoughtful I am, this is a big issue trust me! Here's an example from 21 years ago to prove it!

Did it come as a surprise I didn't think you were engaging in genuine discourse and thus suggested you ignore me when you;

A. Misconstrued the entire argument (which you are continuing to do) by stating I claimed they are being Forced to play through injury. I never once stated that, there's a pretty stark distinction between forcing people to play and allowing them to. Would you care to correct your continued reading comprehension failure or can we just wrap this up?
B. Attempted to delegitimize my opinion entirely by accusing me of "White Knighting" for imaginary internet points, which, voila, you are also continuing to do

[MikePatton]

I am not myself versed in the systems of rules that would apply here, but do they, the NHL and the individual teams, have the ability to prevent a player from playing because they believe them to be too injured? Can they override player desire?

If the doctors recommend not playing due to an injury, for instance, but also signal that it's possible to play through should it be desired, is that enough for the team to say, 'great, we're having you take some time off?'

And then what happens if a team takes that step?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MikePatton

I am not myself versed in the systems of rules that would apply here, but do they, the NHL and the individual teams, have the ability to prevent a player from playing because they believe them to be too injured? Can they override player desire?

Yes they can. If you listen to Huska’s interview with Steinberg from the other day, Huska says they did exactly this with Huberdeau. Huberdeau wanted to play, and the staff said no.

Where I heard it, about 14:32
https://open.spotify.com/episode/40F...SP63DmuFogS8Hw

[PepsiFree]

I don’t even know why CTE or Paul Kariya is being brought up outside of trying to bolster an incredibly weak argument. Neither have any relation to a broken fibula, and the two are barely even relevant to each other.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I think the Flames should use WebMD combined with Grok to decide if players can play or not.

It's worked for the Oilers!

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t even know why CTE or Paul Kariya is being brought up outside of trying to bolster an incredibly weak argument. Neither have any relation to a broken fibula, and the two are barely even relevant to each other.

Is Kariya's brain weight-bearing?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by D as in David

It's worked for the Oilers!

That's giving them a lot of credit. They probably used a prototype ask-Rexall dos based program that had a blanket answer to any question asked.

Souray's says his shoulder hurts and X-Rays look like this, can he play?
Prescribe 600mg Oycodone per day and make him play.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Did it come as a surprise I didn't think you were engaging in genuine discourse and thus suggested you ignore me when you;

A. Misconstrued the entire argument (which you are continuing to do) by stating I claimed they are being Forced to play through injury. I never once stated that, there's a pretty stark distinction between forcing people to play and allowing them to. Would you care to correct your continued reading comprehension failure or can we just wrap this up?
B. Attempted to delegitimize my opinion entirely by accusing me of "White Knighting" for imaginary internet points, which, voila, you are also continuing to do

Take a look back at your posts. You say not forced then you talk about nefarious billion dollar corporations caring more about their bottom line. I'm not the only one that was confused by your point, as evidenced by other responses to you. You still haven't said you want to happen to apparently save these athletes from themselves then, and the supposed longterm damage that we'll look back on like CTE, even though there is next to no examples of it.

I countered your opinion, if you want to call that delegitimize so be it, it was a paper thin "argument" in the first place. And white knighting is a term to describe someone inserting themself into a situation for someone or something that doesn't involve them and didn't need defending. I think that definition is perfectly apt here.

Ya, I'd say we're all wrapped up here.

[cracher]

Huska didn't give any specifics, but fib fractures come in many, many flavors. You can have fleck avulsions which are functionally like a sprain versus unstable spiral or long oblique which can require plates +/- syndesmosis screw.

With the injury timeline, I can assure you that Ras would not be able to put a skate on if it were a bad one. Can't know for sure, but I'd lean towards Ras being an incredible team guy versus the staff going Temu factory on the players.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

"Athlete's play through injuries. that's it" - Kind of my entire grievance

You're more than welcome to defer to whomever you want, but you shouldn't be shocked to hear that some of us don't give unfettered deference to a Billon dollar industry with a storied history of putting the health of it's employees at risk for the sake of it's bottom line, and this most recent incident doesn't reflect any more favorably (for me at least) on the particular team that Monahan so expertly "hid" his incredibly obvious injuries from.

Edit: pretty sure this same board has almost unanimous support for the "Conspiracy" that teams have/continue to abuse LTIR to keep players out longer than they actually need to be to game the Salary Cap for the playoffs. So they're willing to lie to keep them out of the lineup but they'd never clear a player who shouldn't play because the player/team want them in the lineup?

I think there have been cases of abuse for sure.

Nobody has said otherwise.

I'm just struggling with the notion that the Flames would risk damage to the most discussed trade chip they have ... ignore doctor's wishes, and force the player to play not only down the stretch, but also ok the World Championships (doesn't benefit the team) if the player could injure himself worse or cause a longer or limited recovery.

Thinking otherseise is the conspiracy theory in my mind.