That map looks a lot like they plan on using the CP tracks, and to that, I wish them all the luck in the world, adding 30 trains an hour on it. And bend on over.
Go watch any video of someone taking Via Rail from Toronto to Vancouver and you'll hear a familiar thing: "Waiting for other trains" and sometimes for hours on end. This is the reality of a proposed Calgary-Banff passenger train on existing tracks only. I have no idea how they can get any decent frequencies on this route without a brand new track.
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
You’d have to think the cost of expanding that highway to 3 lanes each way would be far less than a passenger rail line, and yield better results for more people.
I don't think so. You're not just tacking on an extra lane all the time. Lots of the road would need to be built to newer standards which usually means wider roads. So now there's new right-of-way to be acquired, new access roads to build, new interchanges to replace the old ones, and so on.
You're also not fixing the inherent downsides to just adding more traffic to the road. An accident still closes the highway. Bad weather still slows down traffic. Emissions increase by encouraging more drivers to use the road. Building a rail connection for passengers takes pressure off the highway, and it's a more consistent mode of transport at all times of the year. The initial cost of a rail connection will be higher but the long-term benefit to society is also higher.
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I'm just glad that the province is thinking about this stuff, and maybe we'll see some action one day. Like any major infrastructure investment, it needs to be ambitious will cost a tonne. But once built, I can see it as a viable option for Calgary-Edmonton (downtown to downtown) and Calgary to Banff. Of course, the airport factors into both of those plans, though I don't think that the airport is a priority without connecting Banff or Edmonton first.
Of course, it could just be another UCP grift to commission studies and contracts to donors and cronies. But the highways are busy and getting busier, and adding lanes can still be done but isn't the magic bullet (Highway 401 anyone?). It is a shame that we let train travel die in this province/country in the wake of the automobile age, because now we're playing catch-up. Cars will always be king around here, but passenger rail can work in harmony as the population and tourism continues to grow.
I'm thinking we need a 'within-City' Hobo Rickshaw plan.
Like Uber but with more Fentanyl. I understand that's cheap!
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Go watch any video of someone taking Via Rail from Toronto to Vancouver and you'll hear a familiar thing: "Waiting for other trains" and sometimes for hours on end. This is the reality of a proposed Calgary-Banff passenger train on existing tracks only. I have no idea how they can get any decent frequencies on this route without a brand new track.
Exactly. Look how long it takes the Rocky Mountaineer to travel from Banff to Vancouver. Average speeds are abysmal, which is important when it's not merely a sight-seeing tour.
I think if the numbers worked it'd have been done by now.
I do think a train to the Airport is a great idea. It'd take tons of work, but most major cities do it, it makes a lot of sense.
I trained into London from Gatwick, got on a train at Charles de Gaulle in Paris, having a train right at the airport is a really good idea....
With the caveat...its gotta go somewhere.
For instance, the train into London proper from Gatwick? It drops you off at...holy hell! A Central Train Station!! From which you can get essentially anywhere in the City you want.
We always run into the same problem of 'circular reasoning.'
Nobody wants to train it to Calgary, Red Deer or Edmonton and wind up without a car.
Ditto Banff/Canmore because while those places are easily traversable on foot and part of the idea is to ease traffic congestion, it immediately goes out the window when travelers want to go and see stuff away from the Urban centers.
Oh and the Green line is a debacle of monumental proportions. That thing is a taxpayer boondoggle.
You don't even have to go that far to find an example that works amazingly well.
The Union Person Express is fantastic with stops at Bloor and Westin. No taxi's busses or renal cars
Brisbane also has the Gold line which takes you from the international terminal on the north side of Brisbane through downtown and all the way to the Gold Coast that would be very comparable to going from the Airport to Banff.
I am on that highway a lot. It is surprising to me that there isn't more catastrophic accidents. The sheer amount of large trucks and vehicle congestion is concerning. How that highway is still only two lanes is beyond me.
Regardless of extra lanes (which definitely wouldn't hurt), one relatively small change that I think would help, is having a rule that states that semis/large-trucks have to drive in the rightmost lane unless passing. You see this in other countries, and having driven under those types of systems, it felt much more predictable, safe, and efficient.
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Exactly. Look how long it takes the Rocky Mountaineer to travel from Banff to Vancouver. Average speeds are abysmal, which is important when it's not merely a sight-seeing tour.
I think one slight difference is that they need to show it as a proof of concept worth pursuing it further on existing track before they go all in.
Calgary-Banff-Lake Louise might make a lot of sense. I would be optimistic of it moving past a proof of concept due to the high amount of tourism and the current and existing complaints of high passenger vehicle issues in the national park.
From a tourism standpoint, being able to get from Calgary airport to the national park without a rental car would be very cool. Being able to see the natural wonders of our national park from a different POV than the highway would also be very cool. Reducing traffic at peak season (ie: Larch season) would be very cool. Hell, an old school train platform that drops you off in breath taking natural scenery would probably be very cool as well. Then you run a ton of busses/bike rentals etc. direct from that station to certain key locations for those tour groups.
The downside is that some may feel that there are then too many people in the national parks than the infrastructure can handle and the higher traffic will mean that some of the natural aspect could get lost along the way as more development is needed to sustain it.
Exactly. Look how long it takes the Rocky Mountaineer to travel from Banff to Vancouver. Average speeds are abysmal, which is important when it's not merely a sight-seeing tour.
The Rocky does Banff to Vancouver in 2 days, and the only reason it takes that long is because they stop overnight in Kamloops so the riders don’t miss seeing any of the scenery. It gets priority over freight trains and makes even better time than the “hotshot” intermodal trains.
That said - it’s one train. Try adding any kind of frequency to the equation and the situation would change rapidly. CN and CP(KC) are both freight railways and have been very clear about that, and network fluidity is usually dictated by your slowest trains, not the fastest. If anyone expects to operate multiple higher speed trains with any degree of consistency, new infrastructure will absolutely have to be build. CP’s main line west of Calgary is already at or near full capacity with freight traffic only expected to increase.
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The lack of semi truck regulations in this country is crazy. Truck speed limits and passing rules, proper side skirts, certified Mansfield bars - all items that protect citizens are a complete after thought. I understand that a large country is going to rely heavily on trucks for logistics. But if the industry argument is that safety measure are not economic and would lead to higher item costs, which is their argument, than maybe we need to stop subsidizing logistics with human lives.
/rant
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Nobody wants to train it to Calgary, Red Deer or Edmonton and wind up without a car.
Ditto Banff/Canmore because while those places are easily traversable on foot and part of the idea is to ease traffic congestion, it immediately goes out the window when travelers want to go and see stuff away from the Urban centers.
That's why we need more options. Everything is so car-centric that we can't even imagine any alternatives. I could totally do a couple of days in (central) Edmonton without a car. I'd probably take a few Uber trips, but it would still be better than 3 hours of attention each way, gas, etc. Imagine going up for a hockey game, dinner, etc. without a car. Totally do-able.
Supplemental infrastructure would also pop up around rail links. It is already happening in Banff because there simply isn't enough room to park all of the cars. Shuttles to Moraine Lake and Lake Louise, transit to Johston's Canyon, transit around town to Sulphur Mountain, etc. Maybe renting a car IN Banff for a day or two (or even a few hours) would be more desirable to tourists instead of renting in Calgary, driving, paying extra on gas, etc. We have already reached the point where having a car in Banff can be a hindrance, as can being without one, depending on what you're doing.
Obviously a car is needed to get to a lot of trails, driving the parkways, seeing some sights, etc. but providing options is still beneficial to all. That highway is jammed in the summer. If some tourists and daytrippers were on a train instead, that would be fine by me.
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The Rocky does Banff to Vancouver in 2 days, and the only reason it takes that long is because they stop overnight in Kamloops so the riders don’t miss seeing any of the scenery. It gets priority over freight trains and makes even better time than the “hotshot” intermodal trains.
You're still rolling for over 20 hours total. That's abysmal compared to driving as a form of transport. In mountainous terrain areas of Europe usually the trains are significantly faster because the tunnels shorten the routes vs. the highways.
You're still rolling for over 20 hours total. That's abysmal compared to driving as a form of transport. In mountainous terrain areas of Europe usually the trains are significantly faster because the tunnels shorten the routes vs. the highways.
The 1000 km is also Paris to Berlin which probably has about 100 million more people than Calgary to Vancouver. Comparing any rail in Canada to Europe or Japan isn’t really a good metric. We don’t have the intercity density.
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You don't even have to go that far to find an example that works amazingly well.
The Union Person Express is fantastic with stops at Bloor and Westin. No taxi's busses or renal cars
Brisbane also has the Gold line which takes you from the international terminal on the north side of Brisbane through downtown and all the way to the Gold Coast that would be very comparable to going from the Airport to Banff.
I have it!
Rail is not the solution.
We must go back in time...and embrace...the Majestic Airships of our past!
Yes. The great Zeppelins can fix this problem!
Just adore that majestic bastard!!
Why are you unfurling a rope?
"Banff is your stop right? Buckle up!"
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The 1000 km is also Paris to Berlin which probably has about 100 million more people than Calgary to Vancouver. Comparing any rail in Canada to Europe or Japan isn’t really a good metric. We don’t have the intercity density.
That's why we need more options. Everything is so car-centric that we can't even imagine any alternatives. I could totally do a couple of days in (central) Edmonton without a car. I'd probably take a few Uber trips, but it would still be better than 3 hours of attention each way, gas, etc. Imagine going up for a hockey game, dinner, etc. without a car. Totally do-able.
Eww, the Oilers? Why?
But seriously, I agree. Yes, more trains plz. Calgary to Banff especially is such a no-brainer with the amount of tourism. And imagine being able to sit and have a drink on the train rather than driving highway 1 back from the ski hills? That'd be so nice.
But seriously, I agree. Yes, more trains plz. Calgary to Banff especially is such a no-brainer with the amount of tourism. And imagine being able to sit and have a drink on the train rather than driving highway 1 back from the ski hills? That'd be so nice.
Well I was actually thinking Flames vs. Oilers, but should've specified. But that might not be as enjoyable for the next couple of years as it was when I went to a Battle of Alberta game in 2019. 5-2 for the travelling good guys, which kept the obnoxiousness from the greaser fans in check.
We must go back in time...and embrace...the Majestic Airships of our past!
Yes. The great Zeppelins can fix this problem!
Just adore that majestic bastard!!
Why are you unfurling a rope?
"Banff is your stop right? Buckle up!"
Makes a lot of sense. If hydrogen is a potential solution towards the future of clean energy, filling a few of those zeppelins with it would be a huge step towards showing we want to set a good example.
The 1000 km is also Paris to Berlin which probably has about 100 million more people than Calgary to Vancouver. Comparing any rail in Canada to Europe or Japan isn’t really a good metric. We don’t have the intercity density.
Agreed that population density means way more funding for improved passenger rail infrastructure.
My point is that saying passenger trains like the Rocky Mountaineer get priority is great, we're still talking average speeds of ~50km/h, which is going to struggle to present itself as a viable alternative to highway travel.
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Makes a lot of sense. If hydrogen is a potential solution towards the future of clean energy, filling a few of those zeppelins with it would be a huge step towards showing we want to set a good example.
Slap a Greyhound Logo on that bitch, make me CEO and we can solve the world's Carbon Crisis!
Lets do this!!
"Everyone off the plane and onto the Zeppelin...no questions! Only tickets!!"
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Regardless of extra lanes (which definitely wouldn't hurt), one relatively small change that I think would help, is having a rule that states that semis/large-trucks have to drive in the rightmost lane unless passing. You see this in other countries, and having driven under those types of systems, it felt much more predictable, safe, and efficient.
One more change, if you're a truck passing another truck by going 1 kmph faster than the truck you're passing, causing the entire ####ing ordeal to take 20 minutes, you're to be dragged out of your cab and summarily executed.
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