[PGT] Flames lose 3-1 to the Rangers

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Is this really a miscalculation though? Many of us were calling these moves stupid, even at the time. It was completely foreseeable. Seems to be more delusion or recklessness than an actual miscalculation.

I think it was a simple as taking too long to sign the players.

[Mass_nerder]

I'm sure plenty of people have already mentioned it, but the team has plenty of up front skill, but it's all from guys that should be complementary. I would argue we don't have any core players, and I think we're finding out that you can't build a team around secondary pieces.

[FlamesAreOne]

We have one of the most grim futures out of anyone in the league. Lack of young talent, enormously inflated contracts for declining veterans, worst facilities in the NHL (For 3-4 more years at least)...

This is going to hurt for a long time.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like the diligence done on Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, etc? Either the Flames have some of the worst pro scouting on the planet or Treliving was simply going after guys that he personally liked and was making the calls mostly on his own. I feel it's probably a combination of the two as if pro scouting was good none of those moves would have been made unless Brad made a lot of moves without consulting others which is something Conroy alluded to. Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

He didn't seem to have a long term plan he was more interested in fixing what he could see in front of him. Just never seemed to bring in the right mix of players and gave them contracts in succession that were anchors.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Basically word for word, this is where I'm at. I don't have a connection with this team at all. It's never been less. At least in the Young Gun Era, there were....young guns. Something to look forward to.

We've got nothing in the pipeline to be excited about. Dreadful time to be a fan. Would rather be a Sharks fan, where they at least know what they are, with no obscene salaries. Two first rounders in 2023, two first rounders in 2024.

I was at the playoff game in 96 when Iggy first scored against Chicago.
I was also in Vancouver at the game for Gaudreau's first NHL goal.
Those moments give you excitement and something to look forward to knowing you've got potential superstars in the making.

I guess Coronato gives a bit of that now but I don't know if he's on the same potential. Getting a rookie of the year type performance from him would add some hope to this team. Or bringing up Wolf successfully.
I don't see any other storylines to care about.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Regressing from 115 points to 80-90 and from 100 point pace to 70-80 would be material, and would have seen this team do just fine

Calgary needs to look hard at how Huberdeau was successful and figure out how to get that level out of him. You’re right, he never dazzled with his edgework, it was his vision and he could just find guys. Even still, Florida played with pace and by comparison Calgary just don’t play consistently with pace

Can’t stress enough, you won’t hear me defending the term on either

Can't stress it enough but playing with pace is so important to be a good team in this league.

This team really misses Kylington. I am not sure if he took it upon himself or just one of the few guys who followed what was asked of him but he as great at taking the puck out of danger and skating it out, and skating it through the neutral zone.

Right now we are trying to toss passes from a stationary position to another stationary player who is stretched out. Basically trying to pass through 2 zones to get it up ice.

It was why it was why Savard and his thoughts on the game sounded so intriguing. He talked about how he wanted the defenceman not to just makes passes but skate the puck up to create passing lanes.

The puck carrier coming with speed will always draw coverage and that will open up the guys upront.

Not sure if Huska kyboshed that idea, but its a missing element to getting the attack going and creating more rush chances.

Even in Florida you saw Weegar get the puck and go, hes not stopping to make a d to d pass, or stopping and looking to pass up ice, you need to keep going up ice with the puck.

Tanev was a prime example of this. Gets the puck along the boards and starts backing up into our own zone and gets checked and gives it away, and Markstrom lets in a stinker and the Sutter tribe is up in arms that its all Huberdeaus fault.

All the talk about the green light and pace its not showing up like it should. We get good chances from possessions but the real way this team will score will be rush chances by the top guys, and moving the goalie side to side.

Backlund can finish playing the controlled game because guys like Coleman and Mangiapane like to clean up the garbage and go inside.

Huberdeau, Sharangovich and Lindholm need more ice to make it work.

[CGY12]

The minute BT didn't give Johnny an ultimatum during 21-22 season, was the beginning of what will probably be some dark years for us Flames fans. Considering that cores playoff track record, IMO it was downright foolish to roll the dice on losing him for nothing.

Then Tkatchuk trade, which was centred around trying keep our collective head above water, was made. I don't even have an issue with the actual deal, but to hand over 8 years and 10+ million before Huberdeau even played a game for us was downright negligent.

It's like he realized how badly he screwed up the JG situation and tried to compensate with immediately signing Huberdeau long term, with 0 regard for fit, chemistry and performance.

BT absolutely ****ed this organization royally on his way out. Then the Flames compound things by just hiring within. Please do not sign anymore long term contracts, take a hard look at rebuilding, and hope like hell when the new arena is finished we are somewhat competent/competitive.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

- They are 16th overall in expected goals for per 60, and 23rd overall in actual goals for per 60.
- They are in 9th place in expected goals against per 60, and 32nd overall in actual goals against per 60.

Think about that... we're so bad at scoring that we can't even meet such lofty expectations as just simply being average at it. On the other side, we're expected to be top 10 at keeping the puck out of our net, but instead we're the worst team in hockey when it comes to actually preventing goals.

To me this screams lack of skill and finish on offence. On defence, a stinker goal against here and there and a backup who hasn't played well.

[2ArmBands]

2 things that concerned me the most in this game:

1. Inability to generate offence
2. The play of Weegar... that was his ugliest game as a Flame

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Then Tkatchuk trade, which was centred around trying keep our collective head above water, was made. I don't even have an issue with the actual deal, but to hand over 8 years and 10+ million before Huberdeau even played a game for us was downright negligent.

It's like he realized how badly he screwed up the JG situation and tried to compensate with immediately signing Huberdeau long term, with 0 regard for fit, chemistry and performance.

Was acting like a guy scorned by his ex & wanted to show off his new GF right away.
What a way to manage a sports franchise.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I was at the playoff game in 96 when Iggy first scored against Chicago.
I was also in Vancouver at the game for Gaudreau's first NHL goal.
Those moments give you excitement and something to look forward to knowing you've got potential superstars in the making.

I guess Coronato gives a bit of that now but I don't know if he's on the same potential. Getting a rookie of the year type performance from him would add some hope to this team. Or bringing up Wolf successfully.
I don't see any other storylines to care about.

In my opinion, Coronato only sparks excitement b/c we have nothing else in the system. Put him on pretty much any other team, and I doubt there's any excitement.


I see him being a good player. Not an impact player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

2 things that concerned me the most in this game:

1. Inability to generate offence
2. The play of Weegar... that was his ugliest game as a Flame

Yeah, Weegar had a tough game. There was one shift I remember thinking: that is the worst shift I have ever seen from him.

The thing that I am most concerned about, is the speed at which they play, which is to say, none. They are standing still or circling back WAY too much - it gives visions of Gulutzan hockey at times. By the time they get the puck to the offensive blueline, everyone is standing still, and there are 4 or 5 guys waiting for them. Their transitional speed this year is actually worse than last year. SO FAR. (I am assuming it is just a consequence of their lack of confidence, stemming from the new style of play they are trying to implement)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, Weegar had a tough game. There was one shift I remember thinking: that is the worst shift I have ever seen from him.

The thing that I am most concerned about, is the speed at which they play, which is to say, none. They are standing still or circling back WAY too much - it gives visions of Gulutzan hockey at times. By the time they get the puck to the offensive blueline, everyone is standing still, and there are 4 or 5 guys waiting for them. Their transitional speed this year is actually worse than last year. SO FAR. (I am assuming it is just a consequence of their lack of confidence, stemming from the new style of play they are trying to implement)

They keep using the word connected which is scaring me because that is exactly what Gulutzan stressed in his opening press conference.

It's not good hockey.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Was acting like a guy scorned by his ex & wanted to show off his new GF right away.
What a way to manage a sports franchise.

It was emotional and reactive. But people are already forgetting the context. With the rapid-fire departures of Gaudreau and Tkachuk, media and fans across the NHL were asking why nobody wanted to play in Calgary. The franchise was becoming an object of scorn and ridicule.

I wish cooler heads had prevailed. However, the GM doesn’t decide the strategic direction of the team in Calgary. Edwards was furious about Gaudreau walking and didn’t want his franchise to be laughed at anymore, so Treliving was told to fix the problem.

[Saqe]

I'm thinking about how Huberdeau and became a PPG+ player in Florida and there's one common thread at least I can think off. It happened under two coaches who both ran offensive minded systems. First one was Bob Boughner who was trash as a HC but ran a firewagon style of game, Florida was top 5 team in scoring and bottom 5 in goals against under him. Then Quenneville came and say what you like about his off ice stuff, he was an absolutely incredible HC who elevated everyone's game. The first year was a write off because he didn't like the personel and they didn't fit his system. But then the next year the Panthers still were a high scoring team but now also became a top 10 team in goals against.

So Huberdeau became a PPG player under offensive systems that either were firewagon or allowed for creativity and played to the strengths of the players. That's probably something Huberdeau needs, obviously there are clear chemistry issues now too and his confidence is gone. But Sutter ran a very defensive minded system and with Huska, the other problems seem to have compounded.

[phelpstheory]

Good lord, the Dome was an absolute snoozefest last night.

Awful energy in there. Does bad weather = bad fan mood? lol

[HighLifeMan]

At this point I think the Huberdeau/Lindholm experiment needs to end.

Jonathan needs to play with pace. He runs into significant issues when his feet stop moving, and Lindholm's game (to no fault of his own) sort of lulls Huberdeau into playing at a much slower pace than needed. Backlund really is the only fit for him down the middle of the ice as Kadri inability to dish to teammates means they never have the puck.

Now in saying that a lot of that is on the player himself and Huberdeau needs to check the **** in. I have defended him to no end but last night was a brutal outing for the guy.

Additionally - Call up Wolf, Zary and Poirier. This team needs a serious injection of spunk.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by phelpstheory

Good lord, the Dome was an absolute snoozefest last night.

Awful energy in there. Does bad weather = bad fan mood? lol

The fans are a reflection of the product on the ice, IMO.

[Igottago]

The loss of Gaudreau and Tkachuck was almost a historic situation, I've never seen any sports franchise unexpectedly lose its two superstars within a couple of weeks. Realistically, how was the franchise going to recover quickly from that. It was a complete sea change in the quality of the team. There was no way to effectively patch that up, try as they might.

The key now is for the Flames to recognize what and where they are -- this is a team on the decline. So put the plans in motion for the right strategy to build it up again. The insanity of pretending everything is going to be fine by staying the current course is infuriating.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

It's even dumber when you consider that his dad is Keith Tkachuk. The guy who had multiple holdouts during his playing career and won each time. A guy who was always near the top of the league in earning while he played. No way in god damn hell he was letting his son get bent over by a franchise Keith himself had no affiliation with.

But Keith always took the top dollar when it was offered. Brady did the same thing.

If Matt was offered 8 years at big bucks back when he signed for 3 years, he likely would have jumped at it.