unethical business experience *LONG READ*

[Heavy Jack]

We order pizza from a local run joint out here. I prefer it to the big box stores even though their online ordering is archaic in comparison, they’re promised delivery times are almost never accurate and they’ve gotten things wrong like regular crust versus thin. But you know what they make incredible pizza, have a fantastic attitude, are customer facing when they don’t follow through on a promise and actually do things like place seal stickers on their boxes which to me sets them apart from the big box stores. Our continued business seems to have made each order that much better and a relationship between business and customer has now been fostered. So long as I live here and want to order a pizza in I will go to them, despite ‘short-comings’ that you most likely wouldn’t encounter at a chain. Perspective is everything and lots of times if you have the patience with a small business your experience most likely will come out better versus going to a mega competitor. In the case of the OP though I think the business missed its mark based on facts at hand and feel like they should have gone out of their way to make the experience better for the OP after showing signs of not being professional or ready for a sale they committed to.

[calumniate]

I don't get it.. Flames gimps review seemed honest. Don't bring a tub that has dead skin cells all over it. Take note and improve moving forward.. It's not like the issue wasn't worth mentioning.

[woob]

iT wAs aN aTTacK!!

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

It’s as uneven of a playing field for the small guys as it’s ever been and if you don’t see that I don’t know what to tell ya.

I have a really hard time seeing that. Big box stores and sit down chain restaurants have closed at a very high rate since the 2008 market collapse.

Smaller restaurants and shops are thriving these days around here anyway. I think 95% my spending money either goes to Amazon or locally owned businesses. If you're a small business who sells something that is easy to get on Amazon, and there is no opportunity to add value then, yeah, that's not going to be a good business to be in anymore. But around here, I see far more good and interesting small businesses being run successfully than I did 15 years ago when suburbs were all chains and big boxes.

[FurnaceFace]

I don’t know about others, but if I’m looking at reviews for a local business I often do Olympic scorecard rules. Toss out the 5 starts and the 1 stars and look at the rest, if there are any. Also I think anyone really looking at reviews can spot the jerk ones easily and discount them.

I’m doing business right now with a local print company who I’ve used the past 2 years. I’ve had nothing but good service from them in the past. I looked up their reviews just now on Google and they have a few dozen reviews, well under 100. Their total rank is 4.5 which I’d consider really good. The 1 star reviews were pretty easy to spot and of the…5 they have, one was a disgruntled interviewee, one was someone who tried to get out of paying, and the other 3 had communication concerns. In all cases the owner responded filling in additional information and trying to make things right with the 3 who there was miscommunication with. The one who tried to get out of paying used a sports figure name. If you aren’t going to use your real name, your review is ignored/laughed at. The owner’s response to them is very detailed and reading it makes me discount the 1 star review completely. Of the three poor communication reviews, I’m experiencing some similarities now but it doesn’t really colour my overall view of the company assuming they can deliver what I need. Again, 4.5 stars when you have so few reviews is a really good rank to me.

As an aside, in the corporate world individual yearly reviews and evaluations are mostly done on a 5 point scale too and a 3 means something like “meets expectation”. A 3 gets you your full bonus. These reviews are often on a bell curve too so most people get something around a 3, few people get a 4, and rare people get 5 or something close to it. If we’re used to this scale then I can understand people thinking a 3 for a small business is a good review.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I have a really hard time seeing that. Big box stores and sit down chain restaurants have closed at a very high rate since the 2008 market collapse.

Smaller restaurants and shops are thriving these days around here anyway. I think 95% my spending money either goes to Amazon or locally owned businesses. If you're a small business who sells something that is easy to get on Amazon, and there is no opportunity to add value then, yeah, that's not going to be a good business to be in anymore. But around here, I see far more good and interesting small businesses being run successfully than I did 15 years ago when suburbs were all chains and big boxes.

Well around here in Vancouver the cost of a space alone for a small business is astronomical. Almost unfathomable. By around here I’m assuming you’re meaning somewhere in Virginia? I’m only speaking to what I’m seeing personally so it’s interesting to see a different perspective. Regardless I think covid has affected small business here almost innumerably in comparison to the big giants. I mean for a long time online ordering was really the main option and small business really don’t have the same robust e-commerce systems in place that the giants have. So with small business now coming back the last year from what 2020 presented bad reviews are almost a dire receipt to any small business that is trying to catch their footing where as the big guys seemingly reported record quarters and years amidst the pandemic.

Again though with me bringing covid into the discussion as a factor against small business it’s a different playing field in Canada where we have been clearly much more strict than the US with our handling of the pandemic. Almost 90 percent double vaccination versus not quite 60 percent in America is a large gap and it would be interesting to really dig into the numbers for small business performance in states that have been more relaxed on their Covid 19 rules versus states who’ve enforced more strict guidelines.

[woob]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

As an aside, in the corporate world individual yearly reviews and evaluations are mostly done on a 5 point scale too and a 3 means something like “meets expectation”. A 3 gets you your full bonus. These reviews are often on a bell curve too so most people get something around a 3, few people get a 4, and rare people get 5 or something close to it. If we’re used to this scale then I can understand people thinking a 3 for a small business is a good review.

That's a really good point. They don't view 3/5 as failing, just the employee doing the job as the company expects, but not really striving for "greatness." I've had both 3/5 and 5/5 reviews in the past. 3/5 is definitely more common. 5/5 was a year I had a boat load of projects and all were either completed or on schedule/budget to be completed as expected.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

5 star thread

It's closer to a Silver medal in my opinion. Or maybe a 3/5

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol, I used to give out my name and discounts to CPers until somebody left me a fataing one-star review and said something to the effect of, 'don't shop here...the owner hates dogs.'

People absolutely weaponize reviews. It's just an awful system top to bottom that, again, profits big tech companies, victimizes business owners and uses consumers to do the dirty work without any means for a business to defend themselves or opt out of the system.

It's an awful system that you apparently pander to, and also still probably benefit from.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Well around here in Vancouver the cost of a space alone for a small business is astronomical. Almost unfathomable. By around here I’m assuming you’re meaning somewhere in Virginia? I’m only speaking to what I’m seeing personally so it’s interesting to see a different perspective. Regardless I think covid has affected small business here almost innumerably in comparison to the big giants. I mean for a long time online ordering was really the main option and small business really don’t have the same robust e-commerce systems in place that the giants have. So with small business now coming back the last year from what 2020 presented bad reviews are almost a dire receipt to any small business that is trying to catch their footing where as the big guys seemingly reported record quarters and years amidst the pandemic.

Again though with me bringing covid into the discussion as a factor against small business it’s a different playing field in Canada where we have been clearly much more strict than the US with our handling of the pandemic. Almost 90 percent double vaccination versus not quite 60 percent in America is a large gap and it would be interesting to really dig into the numbers for small business performance in states that have been more relaxed on their Covid 19 rules versus states who’ve enforced more strict guidelines.

Virginia has been in the middle ground of covid restrictions. Much stricter than the southern states, not as strict as Canada or some Northern states. COVID definitely hurt, and there was some government help that kept the small businesses going.

It's interesting what you say about Vancouver. I live in Richmond,VA which is about a one million metro area with a pretty great restaurant scene with some nationally recognized chefs and restaurants. Most of the good ones are chef owned restaurants that left DC because of the high rents and pressures of the big city, which works out nicely for us and for the restaurateurs. Adapting to changes in the world is pretty key to running a successful business, and there is a market for those that do.

[mikephoen]

All reviews (good or bad) should drop off the rating after some period of time. Maybe 3 years or so for most businesses and probably 1 year for restaurants.

Who cares if a place was clean and had great service a decade ago or if it had a crappy manager a decade ago. Neither is relevant to it's current level of service. Restaurants in particular change chefs, managers and wait staff quite often and that can have a huge effect on the quality.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

All reviews (good or bad) should drop off the rating after some period of time. Maybe 3 years or so for most businesses and probably 1 year for restaurants.

Who cares if a place was clean and had great service a decade ago or if it had a crappy manager a decade ago. Neither is relevant to it's current level of service. Restaurants in particular change chefs, managers and wait staff quite often and that can have a huge effect on the quality.

Completely agree there!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

All reviews (good or bad) should drop off the rating after some period of time. Maybe 3 years or so for most businesses and probably 1 year for restaurants.

Who cares if a place was clean and had great service a decade ago or if it had a crappy manager a decade ago. Neither is relevant to it's current level of service. Restaurants in particular change chefs, managers and wait staff quite often and that can have a huge effect on the quality.

For me that would go a really long way to changing the review system for the better. Shed all reviews - good and bad - after a period of time. It's also good because I hear when people are saying, 'listen to the criticism and improve.' It would be nice if you listened to the criticism, improved, and then the review could be modified to reflect the problem has been addressed and a low rating is no longer applicable.

A guy who kills a family of four drunk driving gets to move on at some point and his punishment is over. My one-star punishment for a staff member telling a guy to come pick something up that was gone by the time the customer came to get it is broadcasted daily to anybody googling my business seven years later with no end in sight. The day after the review I made a rule where you have to visually check the item instead of assuming it's in stock and set it in a holding area marked with the customer's name. The problem was addressed, but the punishment is ongoing. Please, Google, let us shed the review. The punishment does not fit the crime.

[calumniate]

Amazon seems to have a leg up in this regard as they can ensure you're a verified buyer.. not sure what other dirty tricks they get up to! I'm sure they'll tank products constantly and re-release a 2.1 version of the same garbage under a different name

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Amazon seems to have a leg up in this regard as they can ensure you're a verified buyer.. not sure what other dirty tricks they get up to! I'm sure they'll tank products constantly and re-release a 2.1 version of the same garbage under a different name

Amazon reviews are trash. For those, ignore the average(totally skewed by fake 5 star reviews) and then dig in to the others. If the 1 star bar is 1/4 as long as the 5 star, you know it's trash. If there aren't a lot of reviews, I actually read the 1, 2, and 3 star to see if the problems are nonsense, or real. But never ever look at the star rating and assume it's fine.

[Mr.Coffee]

The only sensible conclusion to this thread is that we need to find the business owner, have them register an account, and invite them to this thread to detail "their side of the story".

Flames Gimp can you please email the company and request that their President join CP so that their business can be properly judged by public opinion?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I appreciate Sliver's frustration is coming from an honest place, but I do wonder about the claim that a one star review (whether warranted or not) would be crippling to a business. I think a discerning consumer can evaluate those reviews rather easily. 1 star and no description? Ignore. 1 star at AirBnB because it rained that week. lol. 3/5 and a description that FG gave? Look at more reviews to see if there is a trend. Basically repeat for the 5 stars as well. Discount for older reviews. It isn't rocket surgery.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I appreciate Sliver's frustration is coming from an honest place, but I do wonder about the claim that a one star review (whether warranted or not) would be crippling to a business. I think a discerning consumer can evaluate those reviews rather easily. 1 star and no description? Ignore. 1 star at AirBnB because it rained that week. lol. 3/5 and a description that FG gave? Look at more reviews to see if there is a trend. Basically repeat for the 5 stars as well. Discount for older reviews. It isn't rocket surgery.

Thank you for listening to my perspective.

If I've given the impression a, say, three or less star is crippling, that's not what I meant to do. It merely has a negative effect. When people are giving three stars (general review discussion here; not FG's specific case), I would like them to know a business owner interprets them as harmful.

If you are giving three-star reviews and think you're not hurting a business, please reconsider your review. A business owner will not appreciate that. Especially if your experience is satisfactory - three stars do not help a business and if you're not helping, you're hurting. If you're generally pleased with an interaction/service/product, every single business owner would prefer you don't review them at all if it's that or three stars.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Thanks. I don't generally give reviews, but I do appreciate the perspective on the 3 star thing. That seems like a reasonable take.

[undercoverbrother]

I wonder Sliver's take on NPS scoring.