[PGT] Flames blank Bruins 4-0. But team needs to score more, apparently

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You can talk about structure, but it's personnel too. Our top four D in particular are simply way too good with the puck on their stick:

Defense Pairs 5v5, 190+ played minutes, (SVA), sorted by CF%

OT, but it is nice to see Bear finding success in Carolina. The guy showed a lot of potential but the Oilers were setting him up to fail and seemed to be killing his confidence. He got out just in time.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Stay delusional, coiler fans

"Regardless of our coaching deficiency we beat them in a playoff series on talent alone. We also got the much better farm system, pumping out NHL players out of the box."

lol

What, through post-lockout NHL history has won cups? Tight checking defense and elite goaltending with contributions down the line up, or two elite scorers with a whole lot of average (or worse) behind them?

I'm failing recall a team with the Oilers make up having any comparable in the last decade-plus.

I'll bet on system over top heavy every day of the week.

Coaching always bested us, including 2019 when we had our supposed best chance at going deep because of our "firepower".

And cup caliber coaching doesnt play Darnell Nurse 30 minutes a night.

Darryl rolls lines for a very good reason. There is a science to winning in this league and the Oilers are majoring in gym.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

By my count, the Oilers have 11 of their own drafted players on their roster (including Kelfbom), and the Flames have 9. Not exactly a huge difference.

Originally Posted by looooob

I'm probably missing someone, but of those, 11 the guys drafted outside the first round have combined for 2 career goals

Yeah I'd love to dig into this assertion that the Oilers have the much better farm system.

Seven Oilers players on the roster this year were top ten Edmonton draft picks. So the "pumping out NHL players" is a lot easier if you're consistently drafting high picks. By comparison, two Flames top ten draft picks are on on the roster this year.

So in terms of farm-grown talent on the rosters outside of the first round (let alone the top ten), I'd take the likes of Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington and Dube over whatever schlubs the Oilers are scraping up.

And in terms of now, this very moment, well it appears Stockton has not lost a game in regulation this season and is 2nd in the AHL standings. Meanwhile Bakersfield is mired in the middle of the pack, one game over .500. So yeah, if the Flames and Oilers were to meet in the playoffs this year, I think it's pretty clear which farm team I'd like to be drawing from for help.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by looooob

I'm probably missing someone, but of those, 11 the guys drafted outside the first round have combined for 2 career goals

And with multiple picks in the top 3 overall, if they're not NHL ready out of the blocks, there's something wrong with your amateur scouting and your development system, so those should hardly count.

[gvitaly]

Is BP planning on buying 7-11? 7 shutouts, 11 wins, .711P%

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

There may not have been as good a time as now to be a Flames fan living in Vancouver.

Live it up, my friend. Outside of 2015, those times have been few and far between indeed.

[GUnit]

I like Vladar

[browna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Maybe 2019 wasn’t a fluke and this is a really good team?

It wasn't.
The right personell need to be in place to execute the plant of the coach, and the right person to push buttons (that translate into success and then the players but in becomes greater).
Peters had the players he wanted and had buy in and the top guys flourished. A hangover after being second in the league, Lucic not liking him, then his dismissal and that was it.

Sutter got the players he wanted in the offseason to guffaws (Gudbranson,Lewis,Richardson, Zadorov and Pitlick) and has deployed them the way he intended, which allows 4 effective lines our top guys to flourish with less hassle from opponents nightly.

The franchise decision to stick with Ward becuase he was a nice guy and players liked him, wasted an entire season last year.

[Neeper]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

https://twitter.com/user/status/1462615945210331136

Man, that is some serious company!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1462634658894520327

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GUnit

I like Vladar

He's alright. I guess.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by browna

It wasn't.
The right personell need to be in place to execute the plant of the coach, and the right person to push buttons (that translate into success and then the players but in becomes greater).
Peters had the players he wanted and had buy in and the top guys flourished. A hangover after being second in the league, Lucic not liking him, then his dismissal and that was it.

Sutter got the players he wanted in the offseason to guffaws (Gudbranson,Lewis,Richardson, Zadorov and Pitlick) and has deployed them the way he intended, which allows 4 effective lines our top guys to flourish with less hassle from opponents nightly.

The franchise decision to stick with Ward becuase he was a nice guy and players liked him, wasted an entire season last year.

I didn't think 2019 was a fluke, but I did think that the team was elevated by Gio's Norris caliber season. It's a pretty big deal when a player is truly the best in the league at their position and he took a step back after that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I just have to say, I love the look Sutter gives when he says it’s “pretty even, once you get the analytics experts in to it”

Amen, Darryl.

He know how things are measured and how you actually kick ass in real life

Damn, he is good

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

By my count, the Oilers have 11 of their own drafted players on their roster (including Kelfbom), and the Flames have 9. Not exactly a huge difference.

I mean, technically, maybe but:

-we also had to give up Ferland (+Fox...) after a strong season to acquire Lindholm+Hanifin
-we had to give Brett Kulak away for peanuts to make room for Valimaki, but he was playing a decent role on last year's Cup runners-up
-we had to lose Mark Giordano in expansion to make room for Kylington, he only won a Norris Trophy
-we lost TJ Brodie to UFA, he's a top pairing defenseman
-we lost Garnet Hathaway and David Rittich, essentially, to the cap crunch and they seem to be useful players for their current teams
-we lost Sam Bennett to a trade request... however valid, he still showed that he was a polished top six centre as soon as he got the actual opportunity elsewhere
-Mark Jankowski was a decent 4th liner... until he wasn't. I still don't know what happened there. Should have tried him on the wing though.
- Ryan Lomberg developed from obvious ECHL talent to... consistent NHLer. Even I'm a bit baffled as to why, but it's a thing and he was developed in our farm system straight out of American junior. I still do a double take every time I remember he exists.

these are all somewhat impactful players developed by the Flames' farm system not on the Flames roster. Even with Fox, he came to two dev camps here and was probably getting strong advice from our development guys in college.

Now let's look at key former Oilers not with the Oilers


- Ethan Bear was actually developing very well... and so the Oilers fanbase ran him out of town after a couple of bad playoff games. He's now on Carolina's top pair.
- Jeff Petry is a great player... who they gave away for peanuts for no real reason because they... you know I actually still don't know why
- Tobias Rieder was a great... 4th liner
- Andrew Cognliano was a great two way middle six player...
- Taylor Hall was... a first overall who they gave away because they couldn't develop him
- Sam Gagner is a sixth overall pick who became a journeyman 4C without a hint of a defensive game
- Erik Gustaffsson... was never actually signed to an ELC by the Oilers because they gave up on him. Developed in the Blackhawks system ultimately.
- Justin Schultz actually developed in the Ducks system, before the Oilers just about ruined his career, and then the Penguins managed to resuscitate it into a solid bottom pair D
- Devan Dubnyk had to completely rebuild his game before he could be an NHLer again
- Tyler Pitlick is... the definition a pure bottom six forward
- Jujhar Khaira is... the definition a pure bottom six forward
- Drake Cagiulla is... an AHL tweener that the Oilers hyped up as a top six guy
- Nail Yakupov was... a first overall who is in the KHL because the Oilers failed to develop him


Also, this is just my opinion, but some Flames prospects who have barely cracked our lineup over the years...you know, guys like Tyler Wotherspoon, Morgan Klimchuk, Matthew Phillips... easily would have had 150+ game NHL careers or better in the Oilers organization even if the development trajectories were identical. Just ask Brandon Davidson, Anton Slepyshev, and Kailer Yamamoto.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I just have to say, I love the look Sutter gives when he says it’s “pretty even, once you get the analytics experts in to it”

Amen, Darryl.

He know how things are measured and how you actually kick ass in real life

Damn, he is good

Yup. Analytics and stats are all well and good but the only numbers that count are the ones in the 'Win' column.

[djsFlames]

Here was thinking Markstrom cracking top 15 and Vladar just not being bad in net the rare time he was called upon would be enough to help us scrape into a berth.

Didn't think we'd be dealing with two top 5 goalies and sitting atop the west with potentially Selke Lindholm, Olympic Mangiapane and the best league goal differential.

Jesus Darryl.

[greyshep]

This has been a really nice start to a season. I was really excited when Sutter returned but did not think we would see this kind of buy in so quickly on his first full season.

Love seeing him behind the Flames bench, just seems right.

[jg13]

Just saw Johnny has moved into a tie for 4th in league scoring while looking the best he has defensively in his career.

He looks extremely motivated to get his pay day and Treliving should give him it.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by jg13

Just saw Johnny has moved into a tie for 4th in league scoring while looking the best he has defensively in his career.

He looks extremely motivated to get his pay day and Treliving should give him it.

[Enoch Root]

Flames got 20 of a possible 24 points from their 2 lengthy eastern road trips. Insane.

And the outscored the opposition 43-17 with 5 shutouts. Beyond insane.