Let's talk about: Oliver Kylington

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think Reirden, Carlyle, and Gulutzan were Treliving’s three choices and when Carlyle decided to return to Anaheim he went with Gulutzan

So Carlyle was probably choice one

Bednar was someone the Flames were kicking tires on, but he went to Colorado.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by edslunch

We know Treliving has extreme tunnel vision when it comes to coaches - Gulutzan was the only guy, Peters was the only guy, Sutter was the only guy - so I guess your hypothesis could be true. On the other hand that’s a terrible way to run a team - sacrifice an unknown amount of the season to an inexperienced coach that you plan to fire as soon as your target becomes available. I can’t believe ownership would sign up to that plan

I don't believe that to be true at all, myself. Sure, the conversations would have been there about coaching and Sutter not being ready back then. But hiring Sutter likely had way more to do with the team imploding than a master plan where Trelving would hire Sutter at a later date regardless of what Ward was or wasn't accomplishing.

Likely coincidence that Brad knew another coach wasn't working and had to make the change, and Sutter was now ready.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't believe that to be true at all, myself. Sure, the conversations would have been there about coaching and Sutter not being ready back then. But hiring Sutter likely had way more to do with the team imploding than a master plan where Trelving would hire Sutter at a later date regardless of what Ward was or wasn't accomplishing.

I agree.

Likely coincidence that Brad knew another coach wasn't working and had to make the change, and Sutter was now ready.

I think we can chalk it up to some good fortune at work, but I also think it is likely that Sutter was the coach Treliving and the owners wanted all along. It is not like he just happened to be the next best available unemployed NHL coach.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree.


I think we can chalk it up to some good fortune at work, but I also think it is likely that Sutter was the coach Treliving and the owners wanted all along. It is not like he just happened to be the next best available unemployed NHL coach.

Well that's what I was saying. They wanted him, he wasn't ready, they had to move on. Then when the team imploded he was the guy if he was willing and this time he was wiling.

I was only contesting JayRandom's insinuation that there was a plan to hire Sutter at a later date when Sutter was ready, with Ward being a placeholder. That would be a ridiculous agreement to have in place and one that ownership would likley not be on board for.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think Reirden, Carlyle, and Gulutzan were Treliving’s three choices and when Carlyle decided to return to Anaheim he went with Gulutzan

So Carlyle was probably choice one

Yeo was reported to have been one of the candidates as well, but opted to take an Associate Coach position with St. Louis and the handshake agreement that he was next in line for the HC position when Hitch retired. May have dodged a bullet with that one anyway.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I was only contesting JayRandom's insinuation that there was a plan to hire Sutter at a later date when Sutter was ready, with Ward being a placeholder. That would be a ridiculous agreement to have in place and one that ownership would likley not be on board for.

It's already been mentioned in this thread that the Flames were talking to Sutter for some time. If ‘some time’ means even two whole months, they were talking to Sutter before the start of the 2020-21 season… in which case Ward was, in fact, a placeholder.

[Sylvanfan]

I was trying to think of highly touted Junior guys who fell in their Draft year but managed to persevere and end up with a decent NHL Career.

Daniel Cleary is a guy who came to mind as a 15 year old who played in the OHL a year early and was thought to be the next great thing. But by his draft year he had slid a bit where he was drafted 13th, than he bounced around the league a bit although he was playing at a young age until finding a role with the Red Wings. He ended up playing 938 career NHL Regular Season games, but from the 15 year old hot shot that would ultimately prove to be less than projected at that time, but still a good NHL career. Patrick O'Sullivan sort of was a guy who went later and managed to make it to to the league albeit with some troubling circumstances that later surfaced.

Kylington was a player where I remember hearing top 5 type pick before his draft year and eventually was the last pick of round 2. Here it is 6 years after that draft where he's starting to find a role on a team in the league. Can't think of too many other guys who have managed to stay at it that long after that type of fall in the draft and salvage something.

Angelo Esposito is a guy who was hyped before his draft year, slid and never amounted to much.

Can't think of too many others off hand but I'm sure there are a lot, and more of them tend to go the Esposito path.

So you really have to give Kylington his due for grinding it out the way he has for this long.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I was trying to think of highly touted Junior guys who fell in their Draft year but managed to persevere and end up with a decent NHL Career.

Daniel Cleary is a guy who came to mind as a 15 year old who played in the OHL a year early and was thought to be the next great thing. But by his draft year he had slid a bit where he was drafted 13th, than he bounced around the league a bit although he was playing at a young age until finding a role with the Red Wings. He ended up playing 938 career NHL Regular Season games, but from the 15 year old hot shot that would ultimately prove to be less than projected at that time, but still a good NHL career. Patrick O'Sullivan sort of was a guy who went later and managed to make it to to the league albeit with some troubling circumstances that later surfaced.

Kylington was a player where I remember hearing top 5 type pick before his draft year and eventually was the last pick of round 2. Here it is 6 years after that draft where he's starting to find a role on a team in the league. Can't think of too many other guys who have managed to stay at it that long after that type of fall in the draft and salvage something.

Angelo Esposito is a guy who was hyped before his draft year, slid and never amounted to much.

Can't think of too many others off hand but I'm sure there are a lot, and more of them tend to go the Esposito path.

So you really have to give Kylington his due for grinding it out the way he has for this long.

In Kylington's own draft year, Matthew Barzal was a huge faller. Probably goes 3rd in a redraft, which is around where people had him ranked before the season. Ended up being taken 16th.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

...Kylington was a player where I remember hearing top 5 type pick before his draft year and eventually was the last pick of round 2.

I was thinking about this the other day. Can someone provide links and information to Kylington's earlier draft rankings and projections, and why he fell so hard in his draft year? I have been unsuccessful in my efforts to find any of these after the fact.

[Vinny01]

How critical has the Chris Tanev signing been for this organization? Here are the dominos I can line up when thinking of what this impact has brought. His play alongside Hanifin has rejuvenated what many thoughts Hanifin could be. Tanev was so solid that he played his way ahead of Gio. Gio being available to Seattle snuck Kylington through expansion and created a spot in the top 4 on the left side. Kylington has grasped the opportunity and playing with Tanev he has looked everything like a legit top 4 Dman with offensive upside.

It is pretty crazy that 3 of the Flames top 4 D were drafted in 2015. If it continues like this the team will be steady and secure on the backend for the next few seasons. I also would have given someone pretty good odds if they wanted to bet that Kylington was going to be a top 4 on this team before Valimaki.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I was thinking about this the other day. Can someone provide links and information to Kylington's earlier draft rankings and projections, and why he fell so hard in his draft year? I have been unsuccessful in my efforts to find any of these after the fact.

Just googling around:

Ranked 4th (Sept 2014)

4. Oliver Kylington, D – Farjestad (SHL): The slick-skating Swede has decent size and excellent vision. Held out of the world under-18s last year because Farjestad needed him, he also won the puck control competition against the American League all-stars at 16.

Ranked 7th (Dec 2014

The seventh through ninth slots remain unchanged from the November rankings. Farjestad defenseman Oliver Kylington remains seventh in the rankings,

Ranked 6th (December 2014)

Noah Hanifin of Boston College is a very talented player but he no longer stands alone as the next best player after McDavid and Eichel. I have always felt that Zach Werenski of the Michigan Wolverines is very close to Noah in ability and potential. Both are 17-year-old defensemen playing NCAA hockey and both are faring well. Along with Oilver Kylington of AIK in the Swedish Allsvenkan and Ivan Provorov of the Brandon Wheat Kings, they comprise a quartet of defensemen who all show potential to be top two defensemen in the NHL.

Ranked 10th (April 2015)

How Good Is He? Kylington has the potential to be a significant contributor for an NHL team. His offense was solid to very good at all levels this season, and that skill will take him a long way.

As for why he fell so hard in his draft year?

A combination of things

1) The switch from Swedish Junior to Sweidh Pro was brutal for his icetime. He ended up actually asking his SHL team if he could get demoted to the Allskvenskan because they simply were not playing him IIRC, but this was taken as an "attitude problem"
2) He was injured much of that year
3) As Hakan Loob noted, he had never actually been coached on how to play the defense position. For a guy who was a forward growing up, this led to concerns about his defensive play (the actual play without the puck).
4) Even then, most final rankings had him in the 12-17ish range. I remember thinking it'd be awesome if we got any of Kylington, Connor, Barzal, Konecny, or Boeser at 15 because it was such an interestly deep draft. His freefall was insane.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I was trying to think of highly touted Junior guys who fell in their Draft year but managed to persevere and end up with a decent NHL Career.

Daniel Cleary is a guy who came to mind as a 15 year old who played in the OHL a year early and was thought to be the next great thing. But by his draft year he had slid a bit where he was drafted 13th, than he bounced around the league a bit although he was playing at a young age until finding a role with the Red Wings. He ended up playing 938 career NHL Regular Season games, but from the 15 year old hot shot that would ultimately prove to be less than projected at that time, but still a good NHL career. Patrick O'Sullivan sort of was a guy who went later and managed to make it to to the league albeit with some troubling circumstances that later surfaced.

Kylington was a player where I remember hearing top 5 type pick before his draft year and eventually was the last pick of round 2. Here it is 6 years after that draft where he's starting to find a role on a team in the league. Can't think of too many other guys who have managed to stay at it that long after that type of fall in the draft and salvage something.

Angelo Esposito is a guy who was hyped before his draft year, slid and never amounted to much.

Can't think of too many others off hand but I'm sure there are a lot, and more of them tend to go the Esposito path.

So you really have to give Kylington his due for grinding it out the way he has for this long.

Fowler was a dropper that has turned out to be a steal.
Chychurn may be another example.
Debrincat was thought to be a first rounder who dropped to the 2nd.

More recently Arthur Kaliyev may turn out to be an example.

[1qqaaz]

I always thought Kylington's background was interesting

From wikipedia
"Kylington is of Swedish and Eritrean descent. Oliver's mother, Teber Zeru, settled in Sweden when she was a teenager as a refugee from the Eritrean War of Independence. She was shot and nearly died fleeing Eritrea for Sweden, where her brother lived."

From SportsNet:

"Some kids can fall asleep to the same Dr. Seuss story every night, but that wasn’t for Oliver Kylington. He favoured a tale that was far more real than “Horton Hears a Who,” that he could listen to his mother’s soothing voice retell night after night.

"Every time my mom tucked me into bed she told me that story. I know it pretty well, even though it is hard to explain in English," the Calgary Flames’ Swedish-born prospect began on Friday morning, "Because I asked her every time: ‘Mom, can you tell me that story?’ It is an inspiring story."

It’s a tale of a young lady named Teber Zeru who barely escaped the African nation of Eritrea, fleeing military forces from neighboring Ethiopia, which were waging war and killing Eritreans by the thousands. She ran from her home with her sister and a friend for a waiting car that would, hopefully, smuggle them over the border and on their way to a new life in Sweden, where a brother lived.

Somewhere between the house and the car, the young woman was shot in the arm.

"But she did not feel it, because her adrenalin was high, and she was running away. She came to the car of a friend who would smuggle them out. She saw blood on the floor and said, ‘Who is bleeding? Where is the blood coming from?’ Then she saw her arm, and she fainted," recalls Kylington (pronounced CHILL-ing-ton). "She almost died because she lost so much blood. But they got to a hospital and stopped the bleeding, and a month later she flew from Eritrea to Saudi Arabia. Then she flew from there to Italy, and then from Italy to my uncle in Sweden.

That woman was Kylington’s mother."

Original article here.

I hope he gets paid handsomely on a long contract and then treats his mother.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think with Kylington, it was a combination of physical play (or lack thereof) and getting the tool box together.

The first part was something he worked on has fixed. No one is ever going to mistake him for Robyn Regehr, but he has gained a lot of strength over the years and isn't easily pushed around any more.

The tool box issue is often something that is more difficult to fix. Some players never figure it out. I think he was really starting to get it in 2019-2020 and had a decent year for a 22 year old player. It was disappointing that he only managed to figure into 8 games last season and I am not sure that was justified based on how he appeared to be improving the year before. It might have been a blessing in disguise though as it kept him under the radar for the expansion draft.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Yeah any random fan who thinks hockey hasn’t changed since 1999 and taking a hit to make a play doesn’t lead to being grossly out of position.

1. The stanchion was there.
2. It was in that part of the ice.

Look up linear crossover.

That’s the exact move he needs to improve on utilizing with his reads when he’s carrying the puck up ice either on zone entry himself or opening an outlet pass.

Yeah he’s a great skater, but the effectiveness of that skill is limited if he broadcasts the direction, pace, and play he’s going to make with minimal unpredictability.

He’s learned not to be a defensive liability and to engage in offensive attack, but he won’t be able to drive play on another level unless he starts using the tactics like linear crossover.

It’s not rocket science. It’s just building deception into his game. Wherever your toes are pointing that’s where you’re going. The brain is wired to see and predict that, and it’s easy to manipulate. A little back and forth that makes the direction of travel questionable opens up more time and space for him to work with.

Jack Han was also an assistant coach with the Leafs. He knows what’s he’s talking about and he doesn’t randomly watch games. When he sees something he uses video to empirically break down what he sees going on.

My bad, I don't have twitter so when I clicked on his name it prompted me to sign in. I thought because he had 1 like on his post he was a random.

Yes, a coach definitely understands skating but I still think it is a unfair example. I think Kylington uses deception really well in his skating and the example he showed was done purposely to create a 2 on1 by having the defencemen follow him to the boards.

Could he be better at using his skating? Sure, but I think most NHLers could be better skaters.

[Johnny Makarov]

Not only has Kylington been the best dman on the Flames this year, his play is the best by any Flames Dman in the past 8-10 years except for the Gio Norris year!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Not only has Kylington been the best dman on the Flames this year, his play is the best by any Flames Dman in the past 8-10 years except for the Gio Norris year!

Well, it's certainly one of my faves, but these seasons were all pretty hecking good outside of Giordano's Norris year:

2013-14 Giordano
2014-15 Giordano
2014-15 Brodie
2015-16 Brodie
2018-19 Brodie
2019-20 Brodie

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, it's certainly one of my faves, but these seasons were all pretty hecking good outside of Giordano's Norris year:

2013-14 Giordano
2014-15 Giordano
2014-15 Brodie
2015-16 Brodie
2018-19 Brodie
2019-20 Brodie

Brodie and Gio never got that many points even strength. 10 points in 14 games with ZERO PP time!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Brodie and Gio never got that many points even strength. 10 points in 14 games with ZERO PP time!

Sample size... I don't expect Kylington to maintain this pace over 82 games. Which is okay, too. He's not Bobby Orr.

Also 2015-16 Brodie was 3rd in the NHL in 5v5 points with 29 in 70 games. Only Brent Burns and Erik Karlsson were more productive per-minute.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sample size... I don't expect Kylington to maintain this pace over 82 games. Which is okay, too. He's not Bobby Orr.

Also 2015-16 Brodie was 3rd in the NHL in 5v5 points with 29 in 70 games. Only Brent Burns and Erik Karlsson were more productive per-minute.

Oh for sure. If he maintains this pace he would win the Norris. But so far it feels special. Like Phaneuf 2nd year special.