Should I move back to Calgary?

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Do you live there? Have you lived there?

Maybe one of the best cities on earth to visit but not to live. The cost of living is astronomical and the weather stinks most of the year. So much rain, I lived there and there were like months without seeing the sun. I played outdoor sports there, you get wet and soaked, everything is musty all the time in the winter months. Just no.

I would pick Calgary over Vancouver in a heartbeat. Saying that, we are thinking of moving away from Calgary here in the next few years, want to be out in a smaller town in the mountains since I can work from anywhere.

If I was to raise kids, I would move to a small town also. We have friends who live in Nanton and they are raising 4 kids right now and the town is like a group of parents raising all the kids together. All the kids can roam the neighborhoods, it isn't rare to see like 10 to 15 kids riding bikes together and doing kid stuff. I don't see that in the city anymore. I feel like the suburbs here, nobody talks to each other, neighbors care about themselves only it seems.

I have always told my kids that if you find yourself rather poor financially, just move to a small town to increase your quality of life.

When I was a kid, my family moved from Toronto to Trenton, and my world expanded enormously. Instead of only knowing a few of the people on our street, I now knew half the people in town and felt more a part of the community. I was able to go hunting and fishing, enjoy sports, etc. and get to know a lot of great people. Even to this day I am in touch with kids I grew up with in town.

I feel that what is most important is not where you live, but what you put into the community you live in. I get a rather nostalgic feeling at christmas time when I watch all those christmas movies, which generally take place in small towns.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I mean I know Vancouver is expensive, but if you and your partner "make a lot of money. Like a lot", then I'm curious what are you doing with it to "not be wealthy".

I would say there is a solid, easily definable line between young successful professionals and "wealthy."

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I mean I know Vancouver is expensive, but if you and your partner "make a lot of money. Like a lot", then I'm curious what are you doing with it to "not be wealthy".

Student loans, life start-up costs, etc. A high income doesn't make you wealthy right out of the gates. Unless you're making bajillions, you still have to grind away to build up a net worth even if you make really good money. Plus I imagine he has a high budget for slacks and loafers that you or I could only dream of.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would say there is a solid, easily definable line between young successful professionals and "wealthy."

So the guy who makes a lot of money, like a lot, is complaining now that he's not wealthy.

The next logical step here is for the board to come together for a GoFundMe for him.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would say there is a solid, easily definable line between young successful professionals and "wealthy."

This has a lot to do with the way our tax system is set up and the vast property value gains between 1970 and now.

You can earn $200k, and might pay $80k in taxes/deductions. Meanwhile someone with an established business can run a private corp and earn $200k but only pay $30k in taxes/deductions.

If your talking about building wealth, a house purchased in 1985 for $40k that is now worth $800k (or 1.5 million in Vancouver) is a much easier way to build wealth than to try and save off your $120k net salary.

So back to your point, I wouldn't call young professionals earning a large income wealth, and it's very difficult for them to become wealthy.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by blankall

This has a lot to do with the way our tax system is set up and the vast property value gains between 1970 and now.

You can earn $200k, and might pay $80k in taxes/deductions. Meanwhile someone with an established business can run a private corp and earn $200k but only pay $30k in taxes/deductions.

If your talking about building wealth, a house purchased in 1985 for $40k that is now worth $800k (or 1.5 million in Vancouver) is a much easier way to build wealth than to try and save off your $120k net salary.

So back to your point, I wouldn't call young professionals earning a large income wealth, and it's very difficult for them to become wealthy.

Well said. This is my point for people who didn't choose to take my original post too literally. The ongoing disconnect for young professionals earning high salaries in this city but balking at 950K+ mortgages is a real problem. We have equity, but not enough to actually jump up to a townhouse - we could probably do a two bedroom but ... why at this point?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Student loans, life start-up costs, etc. A high income doesn't make you wealthy right out of the gates. Unless you're making bajillions, you still have to grind away to build up a net worth even if you make really good money. Plus I imagine he has a high budget for slacks and loafers that you or I could only dream of.

I love the word slacks.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I have always told my kids that if you find yourself rather poor financially, just move to a small town to increase your quality of life.

“But dad, how do I move cities if I’m poor?”

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would say there is a solid, easily definable line between young successful professionals and "wealthy."

I guess this is where the definition of "a lot" is important. Everyone has their own definition of what "a lot" is. I don't personally care what the actual number is, but the range of what people consider "a lot" is probably like $100,000 either way of the actual number.

[Ozy_Flame]

Having a lot of money mean next to nothing unless you have a plan about what "wealthy" is to you and how you plan to utilize that. And it's different for everyone. I had a friend out of business school say he'd be happy maxing out at 65k a year because it's enough to have a comfortable life that enables him to spend time in the mountains. Other friends wanted to make a fortune in the patch.

My rule of thumb has been that getting out of living paycheque-to-paycheque means you've already achieved a type of "wealth", which is something many Canadians don't have the luxury of. I wish everyone had that privilege.

[8sPOT]

I did find the OP a tad confusing, to me making a lot, like a lot, would be what the Flames players are pulling in annually, so $750k-$2M type thing.

But I've never lived in Vancouver and do often hear how expensive it is. I dont make a lot by any stretch and have a modest house, it would be hard to fathom making a lot and still not able to afford a townhouse. I'd be moving ASAP.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I guess this is where the definition of "a lot" is important. Everyone has their own definition of what "a lot" is. I don't personally care what the actual number is, but the range of what people consider "a lot" is probably like $100,000 either way of the actual number.

I think people are focussing on the wrong part of Peter's post.

The part that got my attention was where he said "Like if I told my 21 year old self my household income now, but also said that I couldn't afford a townhouse in Vancouver, he would punch me in the face."

I think that's pretty relatable to a lot of people as they hit their stride with their career. Most people probably have this idea that once they put in some time and see some advancement, maybe hit a certain income threshold that all will be fine with the world and they'll be on easy street. But then reality sets in. Whether it's housing inflation, kids and related family expenses, or whatever else life tends to throw at us, it can be shocking to realize how far your money doesn't go.

If an ambitious young professional (or Peter) can't afford more than a basic home on the salary of an ambitious young professional, then that's a reasonable problem that the ambitious young professional should look to find a solution to. Taking his post out of context and turning it into some gross tall poppy syndrome really seems to miss the mark.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

“But dad, how do I move cities if I’m poor?”

It depends how you define poor. What I should have said, and meant, was having sufficient funds to survive, but only at a very moderate level, or in other words Just getting by.

I have found that it is difficult to become wealthy on a salary. Becoming wealthy usually entails taking risk early in life, and having a "piece of the action".

Having wealth is not all it is cracked up to be. I have seen how attaining wealth, too early in life, can adversely affect some people. A lot of the most successful people, whose chief desire was to attain wealth, have ended up sacrificing their marriage.

[stampsx2]

Something that hasn’t been mentioned enough is how clean Calgary is. In my opinion Calgarians do a really good job of not littering and cleaning up whatever’s left over in the spring. I’d go as far as saying Calgary might be the cleanest city in Canada (maybe Ottawa?). If you want to see a vein pop out of a Calgarians head, throw your mcdonalds wrapper on the sidewalk. I got a dirty look once just for pouring out the last bit of coffee from mcdonalds onto the street. It was cold. Wasn’t sure what to do with it.

Little to no graffiti on fences or garage doors or industrial buildings. I know some people might appreciate graffiti itself but personally i like the art Calgary does on the side of it’s buildings....well most of it.

Calgary’s organization is better than any city i’ve seen. It’s actually really well thought out. I used to never need a map to find a building in downtown Calgary if you know how everything’s numbered. When your marketplace pickup is on Dalridge you know you’re heading to Dalhousie. Even with all that, skip will still have trouble finding your house so in Vancouver i assume getting your skip order would be like winning the lottery. Living in Winnipeg and having no rhyme or reason to any street name was just awful. May as well tape a map to your head.

Not trying to derail the thread but i have to mention that Calgary’s traffic management is actually quite good. Deerfoot and glenmore with no lights to quickly travel between quadrants is brilliant. It’s really not the cities fault growth has outpaced traffic development. The completion of stony should help with that. Have you ever driven in Winnipeg where a five minute drive turns into 20 minutes because it’s only a ten second drive to your next red light. Drive around Winnipeg for a year and you’ll suddenly get an appreciation for what Calgary’s done.

Calgary is also business friendly. Start ups are encouraged and arguably made easy.

It’s also the sunniest major city in Canada but deceiving. I’d take a cloudy, rainy and mild winter over the punishing winters we can get over here. Just don’t ask me in June cause i’ll probably say the opposite.

[J pold]

Our young family lives in Inglewood - we haven't had too many guests in our new home cause of COVID but last summer host a few people from out of town they were pretty surprised about how vibrant Calgary is. We had a day taking them around our neighborhood which consisted of walking along the Bow River to the Zoo, them stopping for lunch at Inglewood Drive (best burger in Calgary IMO) dropping off the kiddos and patio/brewery hoping in the afternoon, capped off with a nice dinner at The Nash. Didn't need to get into a car, the sun was out all day and hung around until almost 10:00 pm. Honestly, that's pretty hard to beat.

[Monahammer]

Well, I will happily throw myself up as an example.

My wife and I make a combined income of over 200K. Part of the problem is that when you start to make more, you also start to spend more (by choice of course, but it also becomes somewhat expected by your partner and yourself internally to have a better standard of living.)
So we bought a nice big house that we thought we would grow into over the next 25 years as a family. No regrets, the house has been great. But it was 500k.
Then there's property tax, insurance, etc. My wife and I both own our vehicles, so that is a positive, but there's still insurance on them. Utilities on the bigger property of course a bit more expensive as well.
When we're both working, we live well. We have a budget and are able to put a significant portion towards savings. But it has still taken us multiple years to build up a net worth of 100k (I was incredibly stoked about this.)
Now, we are having children. When my wife isn't working, we are able to save much less per month, but the EI from mat leave does leave us pretty happy. Things really get tight when the EI ends (so back to work for the Wife!) Small problem though, has anyone seen how much Daycare costs? We barely net any money from my wife working while one child is in daycare, now that the second is on the way... I just don't see it as worthwhile to have her work while we net virtually nothing and have the additional massive headaches of both working with two children.

So it looks like for the forseeable future once EI is out on second kid we will have to be satiated with essentially not adding to our savings and not building net worth outside of the principle payments on the house.

It would be very nice if property values doubled over the next 10 years, but even in an ideal scenario when both my wife and I were working and expenses are low, it would be very very difficult to increase our net worth to the same extent as our parent's generation was able to as property values increased.

[afc wimbledon]

The other issue right now is the effect of Covid has been to take away most of what makes Vancouver livable especially if you are in a condo, no concerts, no fireworks, no popping down to the States, no Italian days on the drive.

[stazzy33]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I mean I know Vancouver is expensive, but if you and your partner "make a lot of money. Like a lot", then I'm curious what are you doing with it to "not be wealthy".

Originally Posted by peter12

I think you raise a good point. If you got into the market at a good time with a place that suits your circumstances, Vancouver can be a very nice city with a wide variety of things for people to do, eat, see etc...

We are just making that transition from childless party couple to couple looking to have children but also host large dinner parties.

That transition is extremely expensive right now - in a way that is making me question whether or not it is worth doing here in Vancouver or if we would be better off doing it somewhere else.

I hear cocaine is expensive...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

I hear cocaine is expensive...

I've never done cocaine, my weird brain would literally explode.

[Winsor_Pilates]

There was an article a few years ago that got people all up in arms.
It was telling millennials to stop eating avocado toast if they want to afford a home.

I have a feeling Peter's avacado toast is wingtip shoes or something like that.