Blow it up!

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Dion

I think you're right. Gio appears to have lost a step.

Not just a step -- he bobbles the puck and does not seem to be able to make quick decisions anymore. Love the guy's heart...but his skills are declining. He has to play a different role to be effective. (ie not on the PP? Yah...who else though?)

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

I'll give you Toronto and Edmonton and even the 1st centers on Vancouver and Winnipeg but who are these 2nd centers that are better?

Bo Horvat is a better center than Sean Monahan.



You could make the case that Winnipeg has three centers better than Monahan. Dubois, Scheifele, Stastny.

[Inglewood Jack]

Gio repeatedly shooting into defenders shins and sticks is a particular frustration for me.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Bo Horvat is a better center than Sean Monahan.



You could make the case that Winnipeg has three centers better than Monahan. Dubois, Scheifele, Stastny.

One season over 53 points
Career high 61
Never a plus player in his career

IDK guy

Stastny lol GTFO his career peaked 10 years and was still below Monahan's high water marks

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Bo Horvat is a better center than Sean Monahan.



You could make the case that Winnipeg has three centers better than Monahan. Dubois, Scheifele, Stastny.

I’ll take the Wpg piece

Dubois? He has sure showed well recently. As stinky of a collective effort as the Flames have shown they can put up, I’ve never seen a guy actually flat out quit on his team like that.

Stastny? What year is it again? 2010?

Scheifele? Good enough player, but I wouldn’t want to be his chef

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I agree to an extent about the sentiments regarding Monahan. I like him, but perhaps he's not the ideal guy to center Gaudreau. The ideal situation would be the aquisition of a C who is fast, and can drive play, while playing a half-decent defensive game. Problem is, are there any top Centers that might be available any time soon? I can't think of any.....

Gaudreau falls apart in the post season though so not sure this really improves cup chances.

[The Familia]

Closed door meeting? How embarrassing and pathetic is it that this group requires a closed door meeting already? As if their pay checks are not motivation enough. How much hockey have these guys missed since Covid? They should be chomping at the bit to play. It truly is a reflection of how inept this franchise has been for the past 30 years.

I also don’t get why people defend this group of players, make excuses for them, or expect anything different than what this team has provided in the last 10 years. Nothing ever changes. It’s the same old song and dance from this team. Put me in camp “blow it up”.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Closed door meeting? How embarrassing and pathetic is it that this group requires a closed door meeting already? As if their pay checks are not motivation enough. How much hockey have these guys missed since Covid? They should be chomping at the bit to play. It truly is a reflection of how inept this franchise has been for the past 30 years.

I’m confused.... the players called the meeting.

“Their pay isn’t enough motivation?! These guys had to decide as a group that they needed to be better, and put that on themselves as the players, and discussed how to correct it?! What a bunch of pathetic losers!”

What is pathetic about that?

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’m confused.... the players called the meeting.

“Their pay isn’t enough motivation?! These guys had to decide as a group that they needed to be better, and put that on themselves as the players, and discussed how to correct it?! What a bunch of pathetic losers!”

What is pathetic about that?

Why do they need a meeting to begin with after only 6 games? Why wasn’t this discussed in the off season and during their short training camp. Are you allowed 6 days off your job to “motivate yourself”? Sorry boss, my coworkers and I are going to perform like ass for a week or two and then we will sit together over a bowl of popcorn and decide if we want to perform or not.

[1qqaaz]

I'm guessing the Flames will win today and then this thread will quiet down until the next loss.

[Nammer403]

Teams have closed door meetings all the time...

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’m confused.... the players called the meeting.

“Their pay isn’t enough motivation?! These guys had to decide as a group that they needed to be better, and put that on themselves as the players, and discussed how to correct it?! What a bunch of pathetic losers!”

What is pathetic about that?

Got to jump in here.

I hear the "they get paid to be motivated" nonsense all the time.
I am NOT a pro athlete however I AM a 50 year (this year! 50 years on skis!) Alpine downhill skier.

I am 64 and start my stretches and workouts to get ready for skiing in August. At my age it's classic no pain no gain. Those new phone aps indicate me and my pal have tagged over 60 MPH several times last season and this season. We regularly cruise in the high 40 and 50 MPH range. FWIW I do ski socially with my grandkids and other friends. My joy is that I'm still a high speed carving fool to this day.

Here's my point.

All my experience and skill (I ski like you all walk, second nature and I do not not fall LOL) it STILL takes me a full 3-4 ski days at the start of the year over a few weeks to get my mojo back. Go ahead please pay me a million dollars a year! (Please) It still would not change a thing. I work out properly every year and it still takes "game play" I.E. time on the mountain for me to get it all back.

They get paid millions is a dumb argument at the start of season. 10 games in it's valid.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Got to jump in here.

I hear the "they get paid to be motivated" nonsense all the time.
I am NOT a pro athlete however I AM a 50 year (this year! 50 years on skis!) Alpine downhill skier.

I am 64 and start my stretches and workouts to get ready for skiing in August. At my age it's classic no pain no gain. Those new phone aps indicate me and my pal have tagged over 60 MPH several times last season and this season. We regularly cruise in the high 40 and 50 MPH range. FWIW I do ski socially with my grandkids and other friends. My joy is that I'm still a high speed carving fool to this day.

Here's my point.

Al my experiance and skill ( I ski like you all walk, second nature) it STILL takes me a full 3-4 days at the start of the year over a few weeks to get my mojo back. Go ahead please pay me a million dollars a year! (Please) It still would not change a thing. I work out properly every year and it still takes "game play" I.E. time on the mountain for me to get it all back.

They get paid millions is a dumb argument at the start of season. 10 games in it's valid.

The difference for me is Calgary isn't the only team that had no pre-season. All teams are in the same boat. If you are losing close games like with Toronto, sure.

However, when you are getting severely outplayed by teams (i.e. Montreal), then it becomes an issue and lack of preparedness. Montreal also had no pre-season.

For me, if you are getting paid millions or any money at all, go out there and work your butt off. If you lose, you lose. As long as every player gives it their best.

With the Flames inconsistencies and play, it seems rarely the case where you can just feel and see that every single player is giving it their best. Unfortunately, this has been the case for a couple of seasons now (especially in the playoffs) and the forward core group and GM is the only constant. Personally, I think this team is mentally fragile.. its difficult for them to regroup during a game filled with any adversity.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Why do they need a meeting to begin with after only 6 games? Why wasn’t this discussed in the off season and during their short training camp. Are you allowed 6 days off your job to “motivate yourself”? Sorry boss, my coworkers and I are going to perform like ass for a week or two and then we will sit together over a bowl of popcorn and decide if we want to perform or not.

Yeah but they are actively addressing their poor play. I’m not excusing their poor play, I just can’t understand having a issue with the team acknowledging that they are sucking.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The difference for me is Calgary isn't the only team that had no pre-season. All teams are in the same boat. If you are losing close games like with Toronto, sure.

However, when you are getting severely outplayed by teams (i.e. Montreal), then it becomes an issue and lack of preparedness. Montreal also had no pre-season.

For me, if you are getting paid millions or any money at all, go out there and work your butt off. If you lose, you lose. As long as every player gives it their best.

With the Flames inconsistencies and play, it seems rarely the case where you can just feel and see that every single player is giving it their best. Unfortunately, this has been the case for a couple of seasons now (especially in the playoffs) and the forward core group and GM is the only constant. Personally, I think this team is mentally fragile.. its difficult for them to regroup during a game filled with any adversity.

You are right all the teams are in the same boat. But pre-season schmee-season who cares it still takes game action and puck luck at the start of the season.

Agree the issue was somewhat a lack of preparedness and a couple of newer defenders making mistakes. 95% of goals are scored on mistakes although it sure would be nice to have an OVI or Laine type shooter!.

Regards Montreals game from start to finish I was always aware that it was Price in their net. He's pretty good and I worried for good reason if they fell behind that son of gun is tough to beat. 2 PPG and they were down against a superb goalie and knew it. They played a mixed bag against a good team, we made a few mistakes (Valimaki and Nesterov are still pretty new) and Montreal jumped on them.

"For me, if you are getting paid millions or any money at all, go out there and work your butt off. If you lose, you lose. As long as every player gives it their best."

Here's where we divirge. I think Gio and Backlund ARE working their tails off.
I even think Lievo and Simon are working hard. Hard work is great but it's only when they stop thinking about their games and it just starts to flow, thats when we'll see what talent we have. Some guys start early like Guadreau and Monahan this year and some don't. It also varies every year!

That was all I was pointing out, that it's certainly my ski experience. Try as i might, first few ski days I'm thinking about technique instead of just doing it. Then one day, a few days in bingo..it's there, it just all flows. BTW for me it stays the rest of the year ;-)

[Burning Beard]

I'm glad they had the meeting early. Nip it in the bud. The fact that they expect more only 6 games I shows they are feeling the same way we fans are. I would be way more concerned if it was all sunshine and lollipops in post games.

[Bingo]

Hockey is funny ... you get some bounces at for the most part the media and the fan base just ignore the warts and proclaim the team a group of destiny.

Don't get the bounces and things start to cave in, even when the team isn't actually playing that poorly.

The big concern is the crappy team playing crappy and getting crappy results.

The Flames over 6 games have actually played some decent hockey. This masks some brutal inconsistency that has given them the need to comeback in a few games, but overall their play has actually been pretty good.

Five on Five the Flames are 3rd in shot attempt spits, and 8th in expected goal splits.

If I was to zero in on an issue it's the perimeter play. They are 2nd in home plat shot attempt spits which is great ... getting to the middle of the ice, and not permitting the opposition to do the same. The rub though is the high danger variety (same shots coming on passes, deflections and rebounds) where Calgary is 14th in splits, and essentially breaking even overall.

This isn't a team that is playing poorly overall, but maybe they're not elite in offence to break from the middle of the pack with and create the chances needed to score five on five.

Either way they're bound to get a better share of bounces than they've seen to start the season.

I'm all for a retool in the modern NHL, it keeps the life blood flowing and generally results in better contract management, but I'd wait and see how this shakes out and look at it in the off season.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

My whole thing is you have to ask your self 'Is this a championship caliber team, now or in the near future?'

For me.....no, and it's not even close. And if it's not, what are we doing? What's the point of holding on to the same core hoping that they fluke out and catch lightning in a bottle one playoff run?

I really don't want to blow it up because the Flames looked like crap in a game in Montreal in January, I really don't care in the grand scheme of things. I want to blow it up because I don't think you build championship teams being dependent on guys like Gaudreau and Monahan to lead you there. The Flames have some nice young pieces, hold on to those, see what you can get for other players and try to actually build a legitimate contending team. Stop trying to build a team that will just get you in the playoffs, try building a team that actually has a chance to win it all.

[GioforPM]

^^

see, for example, Valimaki. People talk about his horrible game, and he wasn’t great or anything, but in fairness he had a bad call against him, and an unlucky deflection when he properly got his stick on a shot.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^

see, for example, Valimaki. People talk about his horrible game, and he wasn’t great or anything, but in fairness he had a bad call against him, and an unlucky deflection when he properly got his stick on a shot.

* properly? On behalf of the goalie, please don’t try to block that shot with your stick

A clean view of a slap shot from the point? Let it through. Every time