[News] Kassian to have hearing with NHL **Assessed a two-game suspension**

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't agree with most of the sentiment that "You shouldn't have to fight if the hit was clean" argument. My take is that if a player delivers a BIG hit on another player, even if it is 100% within the rules, then it is simply more than just trying to separate the player from the puck - it is an attempt to injure. I have never had a problem with any player that chose to stick up for himself or another team mate. In fact, I HATE it when Calgary didn't have much of a response throughout the years and felt that this team is too soft and gets taken advantage of too much.


However, Kassian was an absolute moron there. You don't jump a player and start engaging in that way. This is the SECOND time he has done so. Tkachuk could have been seriously hurt there, just like last season. That's bush league from the 80's and early 90's when players would sucker-punch one another.



Game is tied 3-3. You don't like the hit? Should have kept your head up. It happened. You take a number, and try to repay the favour as the game progresses. If the game gets out of hand, you challenge and face-wash, etc. You start running around hitting everything if the challenge gets refused - but within the rules. You don't put your team down, and you don't rag-doll a player around all over the ice.



I am still a proponent of fighting in the game. I think there is a place for it, even for pseudo-enforcers who have limited skills like Lucic now and some others. However, every damn time an idiot like Kassian does something this blatantly ugly and dangerous, it becomes more difficult to side with the fighting side of hockey. He is damn lucky that Tkachuk wasn't seriously hurt - if he had been, the script may have played out very differently in the media and he would be facing a life-time ban, perhaps face some off-ice legal issues (assault charges have happened for stuff that was 'in the game' after all), and the NHL would be facing yet another blight on its' troubled image. Stuff like this makes all the other 'enforcers' look bad, and it gets everyone's throat a little. He is essentially putting himself out of a job in the long term.


I always felt that idiots like these don't belong in the NHL.



As for people saying that Tkachuk deserved what he got since those hits are dirty, please explain to me what makes them dirty. I agree that they were NASTY, but clean. If Tkachuk hit Kassian in the head during the first hit, his head would have snapped the other way. Think about it - hit that damn ugly melon, and it would have forced it to move AWAY from Tkachuk, not towards him. Obviously the head was NOT the principle point of contact, so the hit is NOT dirty, so the NHL can NOT 'police' that hit, since it is 100% legal by definition.


Once again, I am NO ISSUE with players taking exceptions to hits - dirty or not - if they either cause an injury or seem to be the type that really could cause an injury. That's part of the game. That's part of the intimidation factor, and part of what happens on the ice. The second that Edmonton traded Lucic to Calgary, it quickly tilted the 'physical' favour to Calgary's side, and jumping a guy was the only thing that Kassian could do to avoid a reprisal from Lucic. Lucic is smart enough not to engage in a tied game and put his team down. I am sure that next game that Lucic will be going after Kassian, however, at least once the game gets out of hand or if Kassian is trying to do something stupid.


I would be surprised if Kassian tries anything. If he doesn't get the 5 games - which I think he SHOULD be getting if the NHL is serious about cleaning up this crap - I am sure they will explicitly tell Kassian that they will be monitoring his next games against Calgary and will not hesitate to give him a very lengthy suspension if he repeats what he did.


The 'code' is a real thing in the NHL. Somehow in Edmonton, it disappears. Kassian and Nurse both did what I consider downright stupid cowardly acts in their time there with 'jumping' guys. You haven't really seen much of it since the 80's, and for good reason - careers were destroyed.


Challenge Tkachuk to a fight. If he refused, tell him you are going to start running guys through the boards as well. That's usually how it works. If that doesn't do the trick, find a guy to take on that will fight, and beat him up and then point at Tkachuk and say "it is your fault". Etc., etc.. You don't fricken jump a guy. Tkachuk has been twice lucky not to have been seriously injured in his two altercations against Kassian. How this idiot is still in the league is absolutely amazing - a waste of a human being by the sounds of it on and off the ice.


This is really how I see it - he should get a really lengthy suspension here with a stern warning that he is facing banishment if he repeats his actions. I vehemently still disagree with McSorely (yep, I can't believe I was on his side after his ban), since I didn't see an 'intent to injure'. I really saw a 'tap' to get Brashear's attention - both hands on the stick, but it wasn't anything like a 2-handed patented "Dino Cicarelli" swing. Still the NHL chose to ban him for life.


This could have been uglier in my opinion. You just don't jump guys in the NHL. If this is allowed, why wouldn't the Flames tell Rinaldo, Lucic, Bennett, Hamonic or anyone else that is a decent fighter to just jump McDavid? Next time he pushes another player (like Backlund last season, or Tkachuk this season), then immediately have people jump him and start pounding him. After all, you can't let a guy get away with stuff, right? Imagine what that would do to the Edmonton Oilers' season. Imagine what that would start doing to hockey in general.


Kassian better get a big suspension. He lost control and went so far beyond 'the code'. It is insulting to every other 'tough guy' in the NHL and makes them all look bad. It is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. He is cutting his own throat there, but also taking down all the other fighters in the NHL. Actions like his will ensure that this league will eventually become a complete non-physical sport because one of these times he will cross the line and there will be consequences - not only for him, but also for the entire league, and they will make changes.


Everybody loves to see a 'rat' get their 'comeuppance'. That's not how it gets done though. I am completely against the garbage that Kassian showed last night, and I am of the mindset that if you lay a big hit - even a clean one - the other team has every right to make an issue of it on the ice. Always felt that way, and to me, that is part of the fabric of hockey. A big hit opens the floodgates of emotion on the ice, and it can be both beautiful and ugly at the same time. What ended up opening up was neither of those - it was an embarrassment of an act that all hockey players should feel the heat on. You can almost feel the league tightening that noose around fighting after Kassian lost his marbles.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Agreed. Except we shouldn't pretend that Tkachuk is some angel who always plays within the rules. Let's be better than Oiler fans.

The hit on Kassian was clean but Tkachuk is a player that needs to answer the bell on occasion because of the way he plays. He wouldn't disagree with that.

Cro Magnon threw 10 punches. He also horse collared him. What bell is left to answer? He wasn't coordinated enough to hurt him though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't agree with most of the sentiment that "You shouldn't have to fight if the hit was clean" argument. My take is that if a player delivers a BIG hit on another player, even if it is 100% within the rules, then it is simply more than just trying to separate the player from the puck - it is an attempt to injure. I have never had a problem with any player that chose to stick up for himself or another team mate. In fact, I HATE it when Calgary didn't have much of a response throughout the years and felt that this team is too soft and gets taken advantage of too much.

I dont think thats accurate at all.

You dont need to want to injure someone, just intimidate. Even just a little.

One of the ineffable hockey platitudes is 'finish your checks.'

The reason for that is to make your opponents wary of being hit and rush their decisions to try and force them into current or future errors such as an ill-timed and advantageous turnover, an inopportune hesitation or, as in this case, coerce them into doing something stupid that gains your team an advantage.

Legally inciting an opponent into doing something illegal to gain an advantage with the goal of winning the game is well within the rules and spirit of the game and doesnt really need to be defended, which is an action which would negate the initial advantage being sought.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Cro Magnon threw 10 punches. He also horse collared him. What bell is left to answer? He wasn't coordinated enough to hurt him though.

Yeah, it is kind of funny that answering the bell to Oiler fans means that Tkachuk should have tried to hurt Kassian back.

Tkachuk took a beating from a player much bigger than him. Isn't that good enough for them?

[simonarea]

https://youtu.be/WGhpkInbmoc

We need Reeves

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for people saying that Tkachuk deserved what he got since those hits are dirty, please explain to me what makes them dirty. I agree that they were NASTY, but clean. If Tkachuk hit Kassian in the head during the first hit, his head would have snapped the other way. Think about it - hit that damn ugly melon, and it would have forced it to move AWAY from Tkachuk, not towards him. Obviously the head was NOT the principle point of contact, so the hit is NOT dirty, so the NHL can NOT 'police' that hit, since it is 100% legal by definition.

I think most reasonable people would agree that both of the Tkachuk hits were borderline. Were they charging?

The NHL rulebook says charging is this:

Charging is a penalty in ice hockey. Rule 42 of the NHL rulebook dictates that charging "shall mean the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A 'charge' may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice."[1] The infraction may warrant any severity of penalty or combination of penalties as the officials deem fit, including a major plus a game misconduct, or suspension if the infraction results in injury to the opposing player.

After reading that I'm not sure if the NHL even knows what charging is.

I always remember hearing and talking about 3 strides. Don't know if that was just a fan invented thing?

I think if the hit were Kassian on Gaudreau or Lucic on McDavid a penalty would have been called. I'd seen big guys bump a smaller guy with half that force and get penalized. Basically anytime Penner started to get physical for instance.

I think that's the type of hit you'd see fans be outraged by if it happened to Gaudreau or Monahan. I didn't care too much because its Kassian and he has been the aggressor on stuff like that in the past so whatever.

Kassian should have took a number and tried to deliver the same type of borderline hit back. He'll probably get suspended. That's fair. I think anyone trying to paint Tkachuk as an innocent in the scenario is a little off base though.

[Rando]

If those hits were borderline then all hits are borderline. It was a clean hit.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't agree with most of the sentiment that "You shouldn't have to fight if the hit was clean" argument. My take is that if a player delivers a BIG hit on another player, even if it is 100% within the rules, then it is simply more than just trying to separate the player from the puck - it is an attempt to injure. I have never had a problem with any player that chose to stick up for himself or another team mate. In fact, I HATE it when Calgary didn't have much of a response throughout the years and felt that this team is too soft and gets taken advantage of too much.


However, Kassian was an absolute moron there. You don't jump a player and start engaging in that way. This is the SECOND time he has done so. Tkachuk could have been seriously hurt there, just like last season. That's bush league from the 80's and early 90's when players would sucker-punch one another.



Game is tied 3-3. You don't like the hit? Should have kept your head up. It happened. You take a number, and try to repay the favour as the game progresses. If the game gets out of hand, you challenge and face-wash, etc. You start running around hitting everything if the challenge gets refused - but within the rules. You don't put your team down, and you don't rag-doll a player around all over the ice.



I am still a proponent of fighting in the game. I think there is a place for it, even for pseudo-enforcers who have limited skills like Lucic now and some others. However, every damn time an idiot like Kassian does something this blatantly ugly and dangerous, it becomes more difficult to side with the fighting side of hockey. He is damn lucky that Tkachuk wasn't seriously hurt - if he had been, the script may have played out very differently in the media and he would be facing a life-time ban, perhaps face some off-ice legal issues (assault charges have happened for stuff that was 'in the game' after all), and the NHL would be facing yet another blight on its' troubled image. Stuff like this makes all the other 'enforcers' look bad, and it gets everyone's throat a little. He is essentially putting himself out of a job in the long term.


I always felt that idiots like these don't belong in the NHL.



As for people saying that Tkachuk deserved what he got since those hits are dirty, please explain to me what makes them dirty. I agree that they were NASTY, but clean. If Tkachuk hit Kassian in the head during the first hit, his head would have snapped the other way. Think about it - hit that damn ugly melon, and it would have forced it to move AWAY from Tkachuk, not towards him. Obviously the head was NOT the principle point of contact, so the hit is NOT dirty, so the NHL can NOT 'police' that hit, since it is 100% legal by definition.


Once again, I am NO ISSUE with players taking exceptions to hits - dirty or not - if they either cause an injury or seem to be the type that really could cause an injury. That's part of the game. That's part of the intimidation factor, and part of what happens on the ice. The second that Edmonton traded Lucic to Calgary, it quickly tilted the 'physical' favour to Calgary's side, and jumping a guy was the only thing that Kassian could do to avoid a reprisal from Lucic. Lucic is smart enough not to engage in a tied game and put his team down. I am sure that next game that Lucic will be going after Kassian, however, at least once the game gets out of hand or if Kassian is trying to do something stupid.


I would be surprised if Kassian tries anything. If he doesn't get the 5 games - which I think he SHOULD be getting if the NHL is serious about cleaning up this crap - I am sure they will explicitly tell Kassian that they will be monitoring his next games against Calgary and will not hesitate to give him a very lengthy suspension if he repeats what he did.


The 'code' is a real thing in the NHL. Somehow in Edmonton, it disappears. Kassian and Nurse both did what I consider downright stupid cowardly acts in their time there with 'jumping' guys. You haven't really seen much of it since the 80's, and for good reason - careers were destroyed.


Challenge Tkachuk to a fight. If he refused, tell him you are going to start running guys through the boards as well. That's usually how it works. If that doesn't do the trick, find a guy to take on that will fight, and beat him up and then point at Tkachuk and say "it is your fault". Etc., etc.. You don't fricken jump a guy. Tkachuk has been twice lucky not to have been seriously injured in his two altercations against Kassian. How this idiot is still in the league is absolutely amazing - a waste of a human being by the sounds of it on and off the ice.


This is really how I see it - he should get a really lengthy suspension here with a stern warning that he is facing banishment if he repeats his actions. I vehemently still disagree with McSorely (yep, I can't believe I was on his side after his ban), since I didn't see an 'intent to injure'. I really saw a 'tap' to get Brashear's attention - both hands on the stick, but it wasn't anything like a 2-handed patented "Dino Cicarelli" swing. Still the NHL chose to ban him for life.


This could have been uglier in my opinion. You just don't jump guys in the NHL. If this is allowed, why wouldn't the Flames tell Rinaldo, Lucic, Bennett, Hamonic or anyone else that is a decent fighter to just jump McDavid? Next time he pushes another player (like Backlund last season, or Tkachuk this season), then immediately have people jump him and start pounding him. After all, you can't let a guy get away with stuff, right? Imagine what that would do to the Edmonton Oilers' season. Imagine what that would start doing to hockey in general.


Kassian better get a big suspension. He lost control and went so far beyond 'the code'. It is insulting to every other 'tough guy' in the NHL and makes them all look bad. It is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. He is cutting his own throat there, but also taking down all the other fighters in the NHL. Actions like his will ensure that this league will eventually become a complete non-physical sport because one of these times he will cross the line and there will be consequences - not only for him, but also for the entire league, and they will make changes.


Everybody loves to see a 'rat' get their 'comeuppance'. That's not how it gets done though. I am completely against the garbage that Kassian showed last night, and I am of the mindset that if you lay a big hit - even a clean one - the other team has every right to make an issue of it on the ice. Always felt that way, and to me, that is part of the fabric of hockey. A big hit opens the floodgates of emotion on the ice, and it can be both beautiful and ugly at the same time. What ended up opening up was neither of those - it was an embarrassment of an act that all hockey players should feel the heat on. You can almost feel the league tightening that noose around fighting after Kassian lost his marbles.

Thanked due to length

[flamesfan1297]

^^When I played hockey, coached, and watching hockey I've always been under the belief that it was 3 strides or 3 seconds for charging. That definition is extremely vague from the NHL though

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think most reasonable people would agree that both of the Tkachuk hits were borderline. Were they charging?

The NHL rulebook says charging is this:

Charging is a penalty in ice hockey. Rule 42 of the NHL rulebook dictates that charging "shall mean the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A 'charge' may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice."[1] The infraction may warrant any severity of penalty or combination of penalties as the officials deem fit, including a major plus a game misconduct, or suspension if the infraction results in injury to the opposing player.

After reading that I'm not sure if the NHL even knows what charging is.

I always remember hearing and talking about 3 strides. Don't know if that was just a fan invented thing?

I think if the hit were Kassian on Gaudreau or Lucic on McDavid a penalty would have been called. I'd seen big guys bump a smaller guy with half that force and get penalized. Basically anytime Penner started to get physical for instance.

I think that's the type of hit you'd see fans be outraged by if it happened to Gaudreau or Monahan. I didn't care too much because its Kassian and he has been the aggressor on stuff like that in the past so whatever.

Kassian should have took a number and tried to deliver the same type of borderline hit back. He'll probably get suspended. That's fair. I think anyone trying to paint Tkachuk as an innocent in the scenario is a little off base though.

I think the 1st hit was pretty borderline and probably deserved a penalty. The one where Kassian went off was clean though, and I can't see how anyone can enjoy having a moron like that on their squad. Such embarrassing behaviour.

You're a level headed poster, what do you make of Kassian's overall attitude towards the incident, and the media?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think most reasonable people would agree that both of the Tkachuk hits were borderline. Were they charging?

The NHL rulebook says charging is this:

Charging is a penalty in ice hockey. Rule 42 of the NHL rulebook dictates that charging "shall mean the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A 'charge' may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice."[1] The infraction may warrant any severity of penalty or combination of penalties as the officials deem fit, including a major plus a game misconduct, or suspension if the infraction results in injury to the opposing player.

After reading that I'm not sure if the NHL even knows what charging is.

I always remember hearing and talking about 3 strides. Don't know if that was just a fan invented thing?

I think if the hit were Kassian on Gaudreau or Lucic on McDavid a penalty would have been called. I'd seen big guys bump a smaller guy with half that force and get penalized. Basically anytime Penner started to get physical for instance.

I think that's the type of hit you'd see fans be outraged by if it happened to Gaudreau or Monahan. I didn't care too much because its Kassian and he has been the aggressor on stuff like that in the past so whatever.

Kassian should have took a number and tried to deliver the same type of borderline hit back. He'll probably get suspended. That's fair. I think anyone trying to paint Tkachuk as an innocent in the scenario is a little off base though.

Calling Tkachuk's hits borderline misses the point entirely though. It is nothing but whataboutism.

What is relevant is Kassian's actions: they crossed the line. End of story. He was goaded into taking a stupid penalty, and he took the bait, the line, and the sinker.

Also, not that it matters, butt the league has already dismissed the notion that they were borderline.

You are right, however, that the definition of charging is so vague that it has absolutely no meaning. You don't like a hit? Call it charging.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

^^When I played hockey, coached, and watching hockey I've always been under the belief that it was 3 strides or 3 seconds for charging. That definition is extremely vague from the NHL though

Starting from when though? Every player, ever, took more than 3 strides before throwing the hit.

The purpose of the rule, I believe, is to target violent 'runs' at players. And Tkachuk's hits weren't 'runs'. They were big hits to be sure. And they were designed to illicit a reaction. But peoples' attempts to call them charging are as undirected as the rule itself.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

When I rewatched the game today I ensured to deliberately count Tkachuk’s strides on his first-period and second-period hits. Both times he takes no more than three.

I watched closely again and counted 5 strides. He started from above the hash marks on top of the dot, a distance of maybe 40 feet to where he hit Kassian. He did glide the last 5 feet but I don’t see where that’s a factor in charging penalties after reviewing the NHL player safety video on the topic. Most big hits are glides the last few feet.

Tkachuk didn’t leave his feet or target his head so nothing to discipline. Had it been called a two minute charging penalty I wouldn’t have freaked out. Of course Kassian’s penalty should obviously have been a fighting major.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Starting from when though? Every player, ever, took more than 3 strides before throwing the hit.

The best hits in hockey are open ice hits where you use another players speed against him. Those don’t require a “run” or a number of strides at the player.

Charging is indeed nebulous but it always involves several strides towards a player. Look at the famous Sarich hit on Marleau. Sarich just moving sideways and maybe only takes one or two strides towards Marleau before contact.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

^^When I played hockey, coached, and watching hockey I've always been under the belief that it was 3 strides or 3 seconds for charging. That definition is extremely vague from the NHL though

The most important thing on judging of a hit is charging is looking for the glide and if there is a launch. If the player glides on both skates before initiating the hit, he's okay on part one. If the player does not leave his feet to deliver the hit, he's okay on part two. The player may leave his feet after contact and as a result of this hit (equal and opposite action), but not to make the hit. If both conditions are met, there is no charge.

[jmac98]

Kassian got rocked numerous times and was embarrassed because of it. He’s supposed to be a tough hard nosed gritty player and was clowned all night. It wasn’t the ‘type’ of hit that bothered him, it was the fact he was dummied numerous times so he selfishly reacted.

The second hit was perfectly clean. The first one also appeared clean (his head was wrapped around Tkachuk upon contact so obviously wasn’t the primary or even secondary point of contact), however, in today’s NHL you cannot make those big open ice hits to a vulnerable player like in the past. It likely should have been called for a penalty. Oddly enough though, by his own admission, Kassian says he’s an old school player - which suggests there shouldn’t be a problem with the hit based on his own mentality of how to play the game.

He just wanted to fight tkachuk for the reasons all people want to fight after a clean hit: they’re embarrassed.

[gt4flames]

If the hits in question were an issue the refs(ideally) would have called the infraction as it happened...as they did in the Minnesota game 2 days prior by calling Rinaldos check to the head Penalty. Moreover.... the NHL would have not only called Kassian for a hearing, but also Tkachuk.

I am appalled at the CBC panel who was covering the game justifying Kassians actions. WOW. Kelly Hrudey specifically.... a Goalie in the 80's has zero credibility from your career to base an opinion on...He's never taken a hit outside a puck his whole life.

I hope the spotlight this has attracted opens the eyes to a lot of NHL executives.



..PS..Noone has talked about Mcavi socking Tkachuk in the back of the head before Kassian went postal.

[81MC]

Can I just say that intending to hurt a player and intending to injure a player are different things.
I don’t think most hockey players are trying to cause an injury when they lay a hit. Inflicting pain? Sure, you aren’t throwing your body around to make the opponent feel good.

[SportsJunky]

I urge you to read this Ken Campbell article at The Hockey News.
https://thehockeynews.com/news/artic...dle-taking-one

There was nothing about Tkachuk’s hit on Kassian late in the second period – or another one earlier in the game – that was anything more than a hockey play. In fact, the second one embodied everything that makes the game special. It was hard, it was clean and it was impactful. No charging, no head contact, no arms up. In fact, you could argue that Tkachuk might have even pulled up a little before delivering the hit.

Predictably, Tkachuk was vilified by the pro-Oiler crowd, with Kassian leading the crusade by calling Tkachuk “a young punk” and “a pu—y.” Said Tkachuk wouldn’t fight him two years ago because he was a fourth-liner and still won’t even though Kassian has 13 goals. “What’s the excuse now?” Kassian said. Well, perhaps the excuse is that it’s ridiculous to think a player should have to fight because he’s had the temerity to throw a couple of hard, clean checks. If anyone should have to answer for his actions, it was McDavid, who threw a dirty and potentially dangerous hit on Tkachuk from behind into the boards in response to the hit on Kassian. If you want to be outraged, the McDavid hit was the one that has no place in the game.

[Da_Chief]

Don't know if this has been mentioned about all the charging talk.

After the second hit, HNIC showed a clip of their battle that night. Right in the middle is kassian taking a run/charge at Chucky but Chucky was swift and smart enough to keep his head up and get out of the way.

Of course non of their homers will even mention that while crying charge charge charge...idiots...