Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-20-2019, 12:11 PM   #241
Bonded
Franchise Player
 
Bonded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Exp:
Default

I'd rather flip Monahan to the RW rather than trade him.

I just don't think we get better by trading Monahan. We don't really need futures.
Bonded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:14 PM   #242
Classic_Sniper
#1 Goaltender
 
Classic_Sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timun View Post
After they won their division in 2014 and were upset in the first round of the playoffs? Absolutely they did. They let Paul Stastny walk, traded Ryan O'Reilly and Matt Duchene, and hurt themselves over the long run by trying to fill gaps in their lineup with dead weight like Blake Comeau and the retirement tours of Jarome Iginla and Alex Tanguay. It wasn't until after they went through another few years of crap, drafted Rantanen, and jettisoned the dead weight on their roster into the sun that they improved.


Huh? O’Reilly was traded in 2015 after the Avalanche failed to make the playoffs and Duchene was traded after that historically disastrous 16-17 season where he completely soured on the organization.

The Avs are better today because they’ve focused on adding speed to the line up. No namers like Nieto, Compher, Calvert, Kerfoot skated circles around our highly paid forwards. This is the future of the NHL IMO, Speed. It killed our hopes and rendered everyone on this team practically useless.

We’re all sitting here being very critical of our team and most of it is probably fair game. But I’m starting to think it’s more so what the Avs did to us, that really won them the series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Classic_Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:17 PM   #243
SeanCharles
First Line Centre
 
SeanCharles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Exp:
Default

Keep:

- Gaudreau
- Monahan
- Tkachuk
- Lindholm
- Bennett
- Backlund
- Mangiapane
- Dube
- Ryan
- Hamonic
- Hanifin
- Andersson
- Valimaki
- Kylington
- Rittich

Trade:

- Brodie
- Frolik
- Neal
- Stone

Could go either way:

- Jankowski
- Hathaway
- Czarnik
- Fantenberg
- Prout

In regards to Gio and Smith, thier ages and playoff performances leave me unsure what to do with them. Smith played great, Gio was lackluster but not necessarily bad. They are both 36 soon and I wonder how they play as they age. Do you cash in on Gio now or do you keep him and hope he can continue to play at a Norris calibre level?

I dont know the answer to that right now.
SeanCharles is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SeanCharles For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #244
dissentowner
Franchise Player
 
dissentowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by genetic_phreek View Post
107 points weak Western Conference year and most of our points from winning against non playoff teams.

Trade Monahan to NYR for #2 pick.
Try to sign Duchene
Trade Brodie to Fla for Hoffman
Shed salary via Frolik, if not impossible Neal
Czarnik for picks
Jankowski + Stone to TO for Kapanen
Promote Dube and Mangiapane

Gaudreau - Duchene - Hoffman
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Kapanen
Dube - Ryan - Lazar/Hathaway

Giordano - Andersson
Valimaki - Hamonic
Hanifin - Kylington
And if Duchene doesn't sign here which is probable? We are boned. No thanks
dissentowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:25 PM   #245
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Based solely on each players ability and willingness to engage in a playoff style of hockey, I would move out :

Monahan
Brodie
Neal
Jankowski

... for those who are saying that Neal is not movable, I would only be looking for one impact player in return for that entire crew.

Zibinejad and a first for all of them? Done.

Keep in mind that Lindholm, Bennett and Dube all play centre and have not yet reached their ceiling.

A culture change is needed, and the new culture doesn't include not backchecking, not skating toward the puck (and letting the puck come to you), not sticking up for your teammates, and blowing defensive zone coverage. Shying from physical contact also has to go.

If Monahan ends up announcing that he has been injured since the all star break, a major piece of the headoffice needs to be shown the door for letting him play.
__________________
"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:27 PM   #246
Classic_Sniper
#1 Goaltender
 
Classic_Sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
I don't believe that the nature of individuals can be changed very easily. Over the years we have seen the methodology employed by Treliving. He has made some smart moves and has signed some good deals but he is a slow mover, possibly stubborn with regards to his decisions and potentially inflexible. I think we have seen the peak of the Flames under the management of Treliving. At this point further success will only come from a new management direction.


If Treliving walks the plank for this season, then so be it. But I think he at the very least learned a big lesson this season. After last years debacle, I was hoping the Flames would start to build a team like Vegas, a lot of hard workers with speed who can put a lot of back pressure on opposing forwards and render them useless.

But alas, we didn’t and sadly, we ended up facing Colorado who has many similarities to Vegas. A lot of no name speedsters who probably collectively earn less than James Neal, yet made a big difference in this series. If Treliving starts to build his team with faster players with more oomph, then I would keep Treliving around. He’s a smart hard working GM, I just think he needs the right direction which I feel like he might have learned after this series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Classic_Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:29 PM   #247
codynw
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGY12 View Post
May be unpopular but I look at trading BOTH Brodie and Giordano. A team might just be willing to over pay to acquire the Norris trophy winner (i think) and we can address the forward issue (top 6 speed and 1 shot scoring ability). I can appreciate all he's done for the franchise but the organization needs to start prioritizing winning the cup above anything else. Part of doing that is moving on from players and capitalizing on their value when its high. The franchise always seems to hold on till the bitter end, only to try when they have no choice and are worth peanuts (Phanuef, Iginla, Bouwmeester, Regehr, etc.).

Now i'm not pinning the playoff performance on Gio but we've seen what he's capable of in the playoffs. We look damn good on D with the likes of Valamaki, Kylington, Andersson, Hanifin. Turn the keys over to them. Sign a cheaper UFA who can bring in some grit and toughness (but also has the ability to skate) and run with these 4 as your top 2 D pairings.

Ask yourself this, are the Flames a better team next season without Giordano? If the answer to that is no, you don't trade him. This team isn't in a rebuild anymore, and sometimes it's about keeping your good players rather than "maximizing trade value". Giordano is going to retire in Calgary.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
codynw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:37 PM   #248
AltaGuy
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
 
AltaGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
Default

Another piece of the puzzle - I think this series put any thought to rest that Gaudreau was a player able to take over games like Mackinnon did. Gaudreau - even if he tops out his conditioning, speed, and strength - can be like Patrick Kane.

Mackinnon cemented himself in the McDavid/Malkin/Ovechkin tier of players who can physically dominate when on their game. Was pretty incredible to watch.
AltaGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:39 PM   #249
CGY12
#1 Goaltender
 
CGY12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw View Post
Ask yourself this, are the Flames a better team next season without Giordano? If the answer to that is no, you don't trade him. This team isn't in a rebuild anymore, and sometimes it's about keeping your good players rather than "maximizing trade value". Giordano is going to retire in Calgary.
As previously mentioned, if he can get you what is missing up front, you trade him. So I can't really answer the question. He should have excellent value and father time catches up with everyone, now would be the time to move him to address other needs (since the Flames have a bright future on D).
CGY12 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CGY12 For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:41 PM   #250
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
dino7c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
If Treliving walks the plank for this season, then so be it. But I think he at the very least learned a big lesson this season. After last years debacle, I was hoping the Flames would start to build a team like Vegas, a lot of hard workers with speed who can put a lot of back pressure on opposing forwards and render them useless.

But alas, we didn’t and sadly, we ended up facing Colorado who has many similarities to Vegas. A lot of no name speedsters who probably collectively earn less than James Neal, yet made a big difference in this series. If Treliving starts to build his team with faster players with more oomph, then I would keep Treliving around. He’s a smart hard working GM, I just think he needs the right direction which I feel like he might have learned after this series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No name speedsters is not why Colorado and Vegas are winning...it's their big name high end guys pilling up the points
__________________
GFG
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:43 PM   #251
codynw
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGY12 View Post
As previously mentioned, if he can get you what is missing up front, you trade him. So I can't really answer the question. He should have excellent value and father time catches up with everyone, now would be the time to move him to address other needs (since the Flames have a bright future on D).

It doesn't matter. You address those needs elsewhere, not by trading your likely Norris winning captain that has been with the team for 14 years. Is Pittsburgh gonna trade Crosby because they need defence? Hell no. I'll say it again, Giordano is not going to play a game for another NHL franchise unless he wants to, because the Flames are not going to trade him.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
codynw is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codynw For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:45 PM   #252
jmerkel3d
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Exp:
Default

Trade Gio and Johnny! Fire BT! Same Bennett as #1center!

Jesus guys, really?? I get people are frustrated and so am I, but people sure have short memories.

Treliving is inflexible and slow to move and afraid to make big trades at the right time? We have one if the most swing-happy GM's in the league and you can't fault him for not trying things. The unfortunate thing is that when we signed brouwer and Neal, they were exactly the kind of players we needed and should have been great playoff leader types, but they just decided to sign their retirement contract instead. Nobody saw that coming at the time.

I think this team is built to make the playoffs and contend every year. Like any team that needs to learn how to win in he playoffs, we need to go through it, learn how to win in the playoffs, and tweak the team year after year and add supporting pieces that will get you over the hump. That's how it's done.

Sure there's some concerns like Neal as an anchor (likely a disgruntled anchor now), Monahan's potential long term injury situation, and Johnny learning how to find another gear or BT finding players that can help him have more playoff success, but let's not lose track of what was a very encouraging year. We have some great young players starting to come into their own, and this year was a learning experience for them too. I agree Peters got outcoached, but I really like he job he did this year and I think he will learn and get better as well.

Let's make some adjustments and come back for another great year. Go Flames!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
jmerkel3d is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jmerkel3d For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:52 PM   #253
Flames67
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Exp:
Default

I think you keep Monahan no matter what, move him to the wing if you'd like, which is probably a good idea. But we need #1 centre with the line driving ability like Backlund with more of an offensive mindset. I know Duchene has a bad track record and perhaps a poor attitude, but he's someone I would like CGY to take a long hard look at.

Our players that can take over a game are shut-down all to easily, i.e. Gaudreau being completely incapacitated.

I see these ones going:
Frolik, Janko, Brodie, Stone (somehow), Prout, and some AHLer's too.
I have a feeling Neal will request a trade after being snubbed in the last game too. I doubt we get much of anything back from him at all, which is fine by me. As long as he's gone.

I could see Kylington, Dube, and/or Benny perhaps being the victim of a trade to bring in real high-end talent. I'd like to keep them all, but who knows.
Flames67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #254
redforever
Franchise Player
 
redforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Not sure what should be done for offence except for sure, don't want Neal on this team.

For goal, I would go with Rittich at the beginning of next season and let him play himself either on or off the team. Give him a real good run and see what he has.

I don't think it is coincidence that Rittich began to cool off after the ASG just like the rest of the Flames.
redforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #255
oldschoolcalgary
Franchise Player
 
oldschoolcalgary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
No name speedsters is not why Colorado and Vegas are winning...it's their big name high end guys pilling up the points
i think the no names speedsters shut down our top lines and certainly had moments of dominating forecheck, even if they didn't score.

i was stunned at how often they read the play of the flames defense moving the puck up the boards and how many turnovers they caused halfway in the flame D zone.

Add that to the Avs #1 line and you have a blowout series
oldschoolcalgary is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oldschoolcalgary For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #256
CGY12
#1 Goaltender
 
CGY12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw View Post
It doesn't matter. You address those needs elsewhere, not by trading your likely Norris winning captain that has been with the team for 14 years. Is Pittsburgh gonna trade Crosby because they need defence? Hell no. I'll say it again, Giordano is not going to play a game for another NHL franchise unless he wants to, because the Flames are not going to trade him.
Crosby is a Stanley Cup champion, he knows what it takes to win and recently won back to back cups. Your just looking at it the same way because of how long they've played for the same team?

If management and ownership takes this way of thinking, then they obviously don't prioritize winning a Stanley Cup above all else. In order to get to the next level, you need to take calculated risks that may not be the popular decision.

When you don't achieve the ultimate goal and you perform the way the team did, everything and everyone should be re-evaluated. I hope ownership/management does exactly this.

In my view, Giordano has excellent value and he's what turning 36? He is in the final stretch of his career, the team hasn't got over the hump with him and the team looks stacked on D with young prospects. Why not capitalize on this rare occurrence and see if a team will over pay? Address the teams biggest need up front (another play driving forward).

Last edited by CGY12; 04-20-2019 at 01:08 PM.
CGY12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 01:05 PM   #257
Classic_Sniper
#1 Goaltender
 
Classic_Sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
No name speedsters is not why Colorado and Vegas are winning...it's their big name high end guys pilling up the points


The entire Golden Knights roster last season was a bunch of no name speedsters. They were misfits from other teams that applied a ton of back pressure on the opposition just like Avs did to the Flames to snuff out our attack.

And yes, the Avs top guys dominated the series. But lets not pretend that players like JT Compher, Matt Nieto and etc didn’t play a big factor. I mean collectively, those 2 players scored as many goals as our entire Fab 5 combined this series. Team speed ultimately was the deciding factor in this series and the Flames couldn’t keep up the same pace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Classic_Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 01:08 PM   #258
Manhattanboy
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
The entire Golden Knights roster last season was a bunch of no name speedsters. They were misfits from other teams that applied a ton of back pressure on the opposition just like Avs did to the Flames to snuff out our attack.

And yes, the Avs top guys dominated the series. But lets not pretend that players like JT Compher, Matt Nieto and etc didn’t play a big factor. I mean collectively, those 2 players scored as many goals as our entire Fab 5 combined this series. Team speed ultimately was the deciding factor in this series and the Flames couldn’t keep up the same pace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Supposedly the Flames were known for their team speed as well.

I had not even heard of those players on the Avs before.

What a debacle.
Manhattanboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2019, 01:11 PM   #259
Classic_Sniper
#1 Goaltender
 
Classic_Sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary View Post
i think the no names speedsters shut down our top lines and certainly had moments of dominating forecheck, even if they didn't score.



i was stunned at how often they read the play of the flames defense moving the puck up the boards and how many turnovers they caused halfway in the flame D zone.



Add that to the Avs #1 line and you have a blowout series


Exactly. Not to mention, Mackinnon was not on the ice for 35 minutes on most nights and the Flames’ so called superior depth couldn’t take advantage. The Flames were soundly beaten by all 12 Colorado skaters this series. It really wasn’t close. Mike Smith made it close. Without him, this would’ve been the biggest blow out series in the playoffs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Classic_Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Classic_Sniper For This Useful Post:
Old 04-20-2019, 01:17 PM   #260
Classic_Sniper
#1 Goaltender
 
Classic_Sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy View Post
Supposedly the Flames were known for their team speed as well.

I had not even heard of those players on the Avs before.

What a debacle.


The Flames play fast, but I don’t personally find any of them to be particularly fast. Gaudreau is probably the fastest of the bunch and Dube is fast, but he didn’t play a game. Like when you analyze each line, we seem to have a guy that sort of lumbers up the ice (Neal, Monahan, Tkachuk, Jankowski) and these guys were all struggling to keep up with the pace in series. Neal was basically sat out because it actually helped when he wasn’t on the ice, that’s how bad he was.

But overall, I thought the Flames lost a lot of foot races in this series. Colorado had a devastating back check and Flames couldn’t do the same to Mackinnon and etc because he was basically uncatchable. The Avs completely dismantled our team. It really was a debacle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Classic_Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Classic_Sniper For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy