City of Victoria to remove statue of John A. Macdonald from the steps of City Hall

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Sure he had some. But he was only one in thousands of people who worked towards creating modern Canada. What can I say, the man was in Western Canada once in his lifetime during 1886. Am I supposed to believe that he is the father of the entire nation? I value to contribution of people who actually worked in the part of the country I live in over the contribution over a person who only knew about where I am from in name.

Don't worry those people were still racist and shouldn't be celebrated either.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by GGG

Don't worry those people were still racist and shouldn't be celebrated either.

You won't win this argument. See, those people were uneducated, oppressed and exploited by the wealthy bloodsuckers; thus, their racism, sexism, homophobia and general hatred towards anything unfamiliar can be justified and forgiven. Like, always - then and now...

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

1. What is he principle that you're referring to? I cant think of one that could be restricted to such narrow circumstances.
2. He is talking about an existing circumstance - another statue that exists.

I'm referring to the "principle" in Cliff's post; namely that the royal "we" are clamoring to remove the statues of everyone in the country.

Fact is, this move was a response to a request by a Native community in Victoria. If there was a group that wanted the removal of a Douglas statue somewhere, then we could discuss the merits of that request when and if that actually occurred (like we are doing here).

To mentally wax about "WHY DIS DEN NOT DAT?" is literally whataboutism unless there's a similar request of similar gravity to remove the statue that wasn't honored.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Why not adding a plaque next to the statue explaining how Macdonalds' personal and societal views at the time conflicted with societal views on assimilation today? Then the plaque can be re-done every time those views change again.

I actually think the most sensible solution would be to leave the statue, add a plaque that contextualises it (both his positive AND negative contributions), and be done with it. It doesn’t need to go into why we think these things are good, just what he should be remembered for.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I actually think the most sensible solution would be to leave the statue, add a plaque that contextualises it (both his positive AND negative contributions), and be done with it. It doesn’t need to go into why we think these things are good, just what he should be remembered for.

They could write. "John A MacDonald stood here once probably, now he is the guy on your money."

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Sure he had some. But he was only one in thousands of people who worked towards creating modern Canada. What can I say, the man was in Western Canada once in his lifetime during 1886. Am I supposed to believe that he is the father of the entire nation? I value to contribution of people who actually worked in the part of the country I live in over the contribution over a person who only knew about where I am from in name.

Wow, taking East vs West Canadian politics back to the time of Confederation. He was a federal politician, as expected he spent most of his time in Ottawa. Not too easy pre-1885, BEFORE the railroad was finished, to just whip out to the prairies for a visit.

[CaptainCrunch]

Couldn't he have flown here on a flintstones like airplane. I mean pterodactyls were still around then weren't they?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm referring to the "principle" in Cliff's post; namely that the royal "we" are clamoring to remove the statues of everyone in the country.

Fact is, this move was a response to a request by a Native community in Victoria. If there was a group that wanted the removal of a Douglas statue somewhere, then we could discuss the merits of that request when and if that actually occurred (like we are doing here).

To mentally wax about "WHY DIS DEN NOT DAT?" is literally whataboutism unless there's a similar request of similar gravity to remove the statue that wasn't honored.

Winnipeg Nellie Maclung 2010

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because you're at least equally likely to create more enemies instead.

Or, as the top comment on the Reddit thread about it put it: "this is how populists gain popularity".

You think more people will get butthurt over this than be neutral, supportive, or newly considerate of the issues? Based on what? Societies could never progress if we maintained status quo for fear of what the extreme edges of the population will think...

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GGG

Winnipeg Nellie Maclung 2010

It's 2018 now and a summarily different world. They should probably try again.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's 2018 now and a summarily different world. They should probably try again.

Precisely the point.

Maybe you should try again.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's 2018 now and a summarily different world. They should probably try again.

Make eugenics great again!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Locke

Precisely the point.

Maybe you should try again.

Try what? Supporting people's right to respectfully ask for the removal of statuary that they find offensive?

In 2018 the Nellie Maclung protesters might find a more welcoming ear.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

...In 2018 the Nellie Maclung protesters might find a more welcoming ear.

They might. The point is that Nellie Maclung protesters should find something better and more productive to do than occupy themselves with protesting the statue and drag public attention from important socio-economic issues to fake ones.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Try what? Supporting people's right to respectfully ask for the removal of statuary that they find offensive?

In 2018 the Nellie Maclung protesters might find a more welcoming ear.

It must be incredibly difficult living with that perpetual 'whooshing' noise over your head constantly.

Then again, you're comfortable where you are, it just isnt the same place as the rest of us. That must be nice.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

They might. The point is that Nellie Maclung protesters should find something better and more productive to do than occupy themselves with protesting the statue and drag public attention from important socio-economic issues to fake ones.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Oooh....Hot Take!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You think more people will get butthurt over this than be neutral, supportive, or newly considerate of the issues? Based on what? Societies could never progress if we maintained status quo for fear of what the extreme edges of the population will think...

On this one particular incident? Most likely not. Though a more accurate question is to ask how many new allies were created by this decision vs. how many new enemies. Though, again, for this specific incident, likely small both ways.

But how much louder might it be the next time this happens? And the next? And the next?

Also, societies do not progress when change is made for the sake of change either.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This of course isn't even going to MacDonald's white supremacism...

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...e-supremacist/

A racist in 1885? No! Please God no! Please say it isnt so!