Does Giordano get suspended for the hit on Aho? Update:No hearing scheduled - Per NHL

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not at all. I am suggesting that it is not unreasonable to expect a player to incur disciplinary action for dangerous plays over which he has limited control.

What about non dangerous plays that result in an injury? Should supplemental discipline be awarded for those?

Who gets to determine what is a dangerous play and what isn't? Is every hit a dangerous play?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

When you carry things forward to their fullest absurdity they are clearly absurd. We do not live in that sort of world (at least, not usually).

That said, your analogy doesn't work because only one player is taking any action. Giordano did not move his feet, but he sure as hell planted that shoulder with unmistakable force into Aho's body or head. Do you honestly not see the difference?

So he was bracing for a hit?

Yes there is a difference...but not in yesterdays incident.

Giordano, literally, did not move and Aho skated into him. What happened.... happened because of how Gio braced for the hit (which was entirely the proper way to do it BTW) and everything that occurred after that is entirely the responsibility of Aho who by far got the worst of it.

Im wish players would be more responsible for their own safety than they are and hoping to draw penalties because of it, and maybe this incident gets shown to every guy in every room as a way to NOT play the game.

[sureLoss]

Wes Gilbertson has confirmed no supplementary discipline for Giordano

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have gone over this before. Of course hits to the head are going to occur, but I believe there is an impetus for the League to do their utmost to reduce their occurrence. I see the hit in these terms.

OK...reducing hits to the head and all that is great but then you would have to assume all hits to the head are from the same circumstance....now who should be the one being looked at for Aho getting hit in the head?

Should Aho face discipline since, you know, he was responsible for what happened? The rules clearly state as much, so maybe he should be getting a call from player safety?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Sorry, but it's not black and white. You're incorrect.

From one page back:

I don't believe it is entirely obvious:

Rule 48 – Illegal Check to the Head
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an
opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and
such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.
In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was
avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be
considered:
(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the
opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor
timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the
body upward or outward.
(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by
assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full
body check unavoidable.
(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body
or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way
that significantly contributed to the head contact.
48.2 Minor Penalty – For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be
assessed.
48.3 Major Penalty – There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.
48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty – There is no provision for a game
misconduct for this rule.
48.5 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match
penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately
injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by
the Commissioner at his discretion.

Based on the video I have seen I think there is some room to interpret the movement of Giordano's shoulder as a "pick." I don't know, but in situations like this where the line is razor thin, and in which there is even a small bit of conjecture as to player intent, timing, point of contact, etc., I think the smart thing to do is to level equal measures of responsibility.

I am honestly mystified that a few of you are happy to hold Aho entirely responsible for the hit and its unfortunate outcome.

[CNeufeld]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Aho back at practice. Good to see. I for one didn't think it was a penalty

https://twitter.com/ice_chip/status/...94613398949888

You may want to check the date on that tweet... Aho had just come back from injury, and that tweet was reflecting that return.

C

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Wes Gilbertson has confirmed no supplementary discipline for Giordano

Wow. Despite the Match penalty (in a game that was already over) I think they finally got one right.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by CNeufeld

You may want to check the date on that tweet... Aho had just come back from injury, and that tweet was reflecting that return.

C

Thanks I just got trolled.. some kind of newsbreaker = not me. Sorry!

[CNeufeld]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Thanks I just got trolled.. some kind of newsbreaker = not me. Sorry!

No worries, just thought I'd point that out. I hope he comes back soon too; hate to see anyone injured. But that knee looked bad in the replays.

FWIW, I thought Gio was responsible... For a good defensive play to stop someone from cutting into a dangerous scoring position with the puck. As far as the knee goes, it's hard to blame him for a knee-on-knee infraction since his feet were planted and he was pretty stationary. A player with their head up would have been able to avoid that. And as far as the head contact, again... Skating with head down means you're much more likely to get clocked, but even then I thought the brunt of the hit was to the body, with the head as collateral damage. Again, head up means that doesn't happen.

In any case, the penalties assessed during the game were apparently punishment enough. Glad Gio won't be out when the team comes back.

C

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow. Despite the Match penalty (in a game that was already over) I think they finally got one right.

Like I said earlier, not only will there be no supplemental...i believe Treliving will be making the request to have the match penalty (and associated game misconduct) rescinded entirely as it was the incorrect call.

Those misconducts can cost you once you get to the end of the season and into the playoffs.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

What about non dangerous plays that result in an injury? Should supplemental discipline be awarded for those?

The problem with these discussions is that they always devolve into these fallacious "slippery slope" arguments. The game is flawed and it always will be. That is not preventable, and the line will always have to be drawn somewhere. I admit it: it's fairly arbitrary, but then again, so is the alternative—to allow some head hits, while forgiving others.

Who gets to determine what is a dangerous play and what isn't?

The League
The NHLPA
The Player Safety Committee
The in-game officials.

It is not about eliminating "danger." It is more about managing it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Giordano, literally, did not move and Aho skated into him. What happened.... happened because of how Gio braced for the hit (which was entirely the proper way to do it BTW) and everything that occurred after that is entirely the responsibility of Aho who by far got the worst of it.

I disagree. What you are describing is in part an interpretation of intent, which is not really possible from this vantage point.

Im wish players would be more responsible for their own safety than they are and hoping to draw penalties because of it, and maybe this incident gets shown to every guy in every room as a way to NOT play the game.

are you suggesting that Aho was attempting to draw a penalty? That seems even more absurd than your above "fullest absurdity" example.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow. Despite the Match penalty (in a game that was already over) I think they finally got one right.

The match penalty was an over reaction but given the game situation it made sense to diffuse the situation completely. In a tight game I doubt Giordano is sent off and Williams doesn't draw the instigator.

Good solid clean check and Williams responded. Don't really have an issue with how this played out.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't believe it is entirely obvious:


Based on the video I have seen I think there is some room to interpret the movement of Giordano's shoulder as a "pick." I don't know, but in situations like this where the line is razor thin, and in which there is even a small bit of conjecture as to player intent, timing, point of contact, etc., I think the smart thing to do is to level equal measures of responsibility.

I am honestly mystified that a few of you are happy to hold Aho entirely responsible for the hit and its unfortunate outcome.

I honestly think you're reaching. It's clear Aho is moving his upper body (instinctively) at the last moment which brings his head further into vulnerability.

You're now moving to suggesting "there's room to interpret" Gio is trying to pick off his head?

I'm mystified you're keeping this up after you clearly didn't realize there were those stipulations in the rule book.

I think it's pretty obvious from even initial viewing (nevermind repeated slow motion examination) Aho:

- put himself in a vulnerable position by a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full check unavoidable

- materially changed the position of his body head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way significantly contributed to the head contact.


To me those two things couldn't be worded more accurately as it pertains to the video clip of that sequence.

Yet you're sticking with: "I think there is some room to interpret the movement of Giordano's shoulder as a "pick."

Weird.

[rohara66]

To the people thinking he was going to get a further suspension give your head a shake.

Watch the replay again.... Gio stopped moving and Aho skated directly into Gio's body. Aho literally skated right into Gio's body.

Keep your head up kid!

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am honestly mystified that a few of you are happy to hold Aho entirely responsible for the hit and its unfortunate outcome.

100% the hit and the outcome are on the professional hockey league player skating into the slot with his head down.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...reducing hits to the head and all that is great but then you would have to assume all hits to the head are from the same circumstance....now who should be the one being looked at for Aho getting hit in the head?

I don't believe so. I think an argument could be made that there has already been a reduction in head injuries because of how the League has changed their view of head contact as it occurs within body checking. I think they are on the right track.

Should Aho face discipline since, you know, he was responsible for what happened? The rules clearly state as much, so maybe he should be getting a call from player safety?

I would say that both Giordano and Aho have sustained adequate consequences for their part in the incident.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by rohara66

100% the hit and the outcome are on the professional hockey league player skating into the slot with his head down.

Not anymore.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not anymore.

If Aho skates in the slot and Gio raised his elbow and clips Aho in the chin thats on Gio.

But in this case Aho skated INTO Giordano! And Gio didn't raise his arm or target his head. And Gio was standing still.

Are you implying that a player can duck his head down into his chest and then can't be touched by an opposing player?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I disagree. What you are describing is in part an interpretation of intent, which is not really possible from this vantage point.


are you suggesting that Aho was attempting to draw a penalty? That seems even more absurd than your above "fullest absurdity" example.

No.

But i have seen guys purposely place themselves in dangerous situations knowing there would be a call if the hit is made. Almost always along the boards, which IMO is FAR more dangerous than playing footsie with oneself through the middle of the ice as we witnessed yesterday.

There is a dearth of personal responsibility at times.