Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[heep223]

Originally Posted by saillias

just so we're clear are you saying you're some pro hockey watcher who carefully analyzes the play when he goes to games on a Saturday night? you treat it like a job. dont miss a second of play. shush your wife.

That sounds excellent.

[Alpine Fisher]

Originally Posted by saillias

just so we're clear are you saying you're some pro hockey watcher who carefully analyzes the play when he goes to games on a Saturday night? you treat it like a job. dont miss a second of play. shush your wife.

Great contribution to the thread buddy.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

Great contribution to the thread buddy.

You tried this appeal to authority argument on dissentowner saying you were at the game so your take must be better than his, no? I am simply following your train of thought. So are you a pro hockey watcher?

[GioforPM]

Going to a game is great. But IMO it doesn't lend itself to great analysis a lot of the time. No replays other than the jumbotron. No rewind, freeze frame, no isolation shots. Yes, pro scouts go to games. But they actually watch tape too. And so do coaches and players.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Torture

Isn't Brodie playing his off-side? (Or rather, his natural side where before he played his off-side).

I'd say it's more likely that's why he looks a little uncomfortable than his D partner (who I actually think has been pretty effective)

Just wanted to touch on this. There was an interview the other day (I believe with Gulutzan), who said that while Brodie is actually much more comfortable on his off-side, they agreed he would improve a lot by teaching him the other side.

It's the reason he's looked lost and uncomfortable at times, he's learning to play on the other side.

Personally, I say go for it. If we thought Brodie was good last year, wait until we have a Brodie that can play that well regardless of where he's lined up.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Going to a game is great. But IMO it doesn't lend itself to great analysis a lot of the time. No replays other than the jumbotron. No rewind, freeze frame, no isolation shots. Yes, pro scouts go to games. But they actually watch tape too. And so do coaches and players.

It's funny how we still call it tape. I haven't physically seen a VHS in 10 years.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Just wanted to touch on this. There was an interview the other day (I believe with Gulutzan), who said that while Brodie is actually much more comfortable on his off-side, they agreed he would improve a lot by teaching him the other side.

It's the reason he's looked lost and uncomfortable at times, he's learning to play on the other side.

Personally, I say go for it. If we thought Brodie was good last year, wait until we have a Brodie that can play that well regardless of where he's lined up.

The reason Brodie is so good on his off-side is because he's one of the best backhand passers in the league. Putting him on his natural side removes one of his best assets.

I see what GG is trying to do, but Brodie was already a top-15 defenseman in the league. Is playing his natural side going to turn him into a top-5 defenseman? There's not much to gain and a lot to lose from this experiment.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I see what GG is trying to do, but Brodie was already a top-15 defenseman in the league. Is playing his natural side going to turn him into a top-5 defenseman? There's not much to gain and a lot to lose from this experiment.

I disagree, unless you think that Brodie will lose the ability to play on his off-side because of this experiment. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain from a development standpoint.

Plus, it sounded like Brodie himself wanted to get better at both sides. If he turns into a top 5 defenceman or even just a top 12 defenceman, you improve any player you can.

I think some people are just shocked by what learning looks like. Whether Brodie, Gaudreau, Monahan, the power play, etc. These guys are learning systems, improving rough areas of their game, learning how to be "the guys." It takes time and it looks ugly, but it'll get there.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I see what GG is trying to do, but Brodie was already a top-15 defenseman in the league. Is playing his natural side going to turn him into a top-5 defenseman? There's not much to gain and a lot to lose from this experiment.

Okay, let's assume Brodie was already a top-15 defenseman in the league (I actually agree, in fact I argue he's already closer to top 5 than 15).

What is Brodie's biggest weakness? Getting point shot attempts through traffic and close to the net for tips, rebounds, or just plain goals. Brodie is an elite two-way defenseman right now, but this is a guy who could win a Norris Trophy or Conn Smythe if he could increase his shot generation.

2015-16 5v5 Individual Unblocked Shot Attempts per 60 minutes:



What we see, is that Brodie's shot totals were absolutely putrid. Now part of that is his amazing playmaking ability - he might be the Alex Tanguay of defensemen - but I believe part of it is simply due to how much time he spends on the right side of the ice in the offensive zone. It's not easy to get quick shots through by collecting the puck on your backhand. He would need to almost double his unblocked shot attempt generation to get to Duncan Keith levels. We should encourage this.

That said, playing him with Engelland is hardly the solution. He needs to play with a D that can get the puck across to him - Wideman would be my proposal, along with a Gio-Hamilton pair.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

The reason Brodie is so good on his off-side is because he's one of the best backhand passers in the league. Putting him on his natural side removes one of his best assets.

I see what GG is trying to do, but Brodie was already a top-15 defenseman in the league. Is playing his natural side going to turn him into a top-5 defenseman? There's not much to gain and a lot to lose from this experiment.

If he's a great backhand passer, shouldn't he be even better on the forehand?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If he's a great backhand passer, shouldn't he be even better on the forehand?

All the evidence so far points to 'NO'.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If he's a great backhand passer, shouldn't he be even better on the forehand?

Was this a serious question? If so than I guess you've never picked up a hockey stick before. It's very difficult to saucer a backhand pass with as much velocity as Brodie while remaining as accurate as his consistently are. You are using completely different muscles.

Regarding Granteeds point, why do you need Brodie to be an elite shooter? Do we really need Hamilton, Giordano, Wideman AND Brodie to be shooting the puck from the point? Brodie will never have the shot that Giordano does and that's fine. How many goals have come off Gio's stick as a result of Brodie's backhand pass? Lots of them. They were the best D pairing in the league as a result (backed up by advanced stats).

Regarding Pepsi's point, there's a lot to lose by putting Brodie on the left side. Confidence is everything in the NHL and if Brodie stops believing in himself than it won't matter what side of the ice he's playing on. Our most defensively responsible defenseman is turning the puck over on a regular basis and any improvements have been marginal.

And please show me where Brodie said he wants to learn the left-side. He has stated many times that he prefers playing on the right side.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Was this a serious question? If so than I guess you've never picked up a hockey stick before. It's very difficult to saucer a backhand pass with as much velocity as Brodie while remaining as accurate as his consistently are. You are using completely different muscles.

Regarding Granteeds point, why do you need Brodie to be an elite shooter? Do we really need Hamilton, Giordano, Wideman AND Brodie to be shooting the puck from the point? Brodie will never have the shot that Giordano does and that's fine. How many goals have come off Gio's stick as a result of Brodie's backhand pass? Lots of them. They were the best D pairing in the league as a result (backed up by advanced stats).

Regarding Pepsi's point, there's a lot to lose by putting Brodie on the left side. Confidence is everything in the NHL and if Brodie stops believing in himself than it won't matter what side of the ice he's playing on. Our most defensively responsible defenseman is turning the puck over on a regular basis and any improvements have been marginal.

And please show me where Brodie said he wants to learn the left-side. He has stated many times that he prefers playing on the right side.

Thanks for the condescension. I've played quite a bit of hockey.

Name me one great backhand passer who wasn't also a great forehand passer. Sure you use different muscles. You just use the ones for forehand more often and better.

[GioforPM]

BTW, have you played hockey before? RH/LH defencemen pairings is not about point shots. It's about transition games.



https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/03/04...of-handedness/

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/109...ded-defensemen

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thanks for the condescension. I've played quite a bit of hockey.

Name me one great backhand passer who wasn't also a great forehand passer. Sure you use different muscles. You just use the ones for forehand more often and better.

T.J. Brodie would fit that criteria. He's an elite backhand passer and only an average forehand one.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

T.J. Brodie would fit that criteria. He's an elite backhand passer and only an average forehand one.

I'm betting if you asked him which pass he'd prefer to make he'd say forehand. But since the assumption of the poster was that Brodie was better on the BH I was really looking for someone other than Brodie.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm betting if you asked him which pass he'd prefer to make he'd say forehand. But since the assumption of the poster was that Brodie was better on the BH I was really looking for someone other than Brodie.

Who cares who else the label applies to. We are talking about Brodie...

It's just as dumb as saying whoever has the hardest slap shot in the league also has the hardest wrist shot.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Was this a serious question? If so than I guess you've never picked up a hockey stick before. It's very difficult to saucer a backhand pass with as much velocity as Brodie while remaining as accurate as his consistently are. You are using completely different muscles.

Regarding Granteeds point, why do you need Brodie to be an elite shooter? Do we really need Hamilton, Giordano, Wideman AND Brodie to be shooting the puck from the point? Brodie will never have the shot that Giordano does and that's fine. How many goals have come off Gio's stick as a result of Brodie's backhand pass? Lots of them. They were the best D pairing in the league as a result (backed up by advanced stats).

Regarding Pepsi's point, there's a lot to lose by putting Brodie on the left side. Confidence is everything in the NHL and if Brodie stops believing in himself than it won't matter what side of the ice he's playing on. Our most defensively responsible defenseman is turning the puck over on a regular basis and any improvements have been marginal.

And please show me where Brodie said he wants to learn the left-side. He has stated many times that he prefers playing on the right side.

Why wouldn't you want Brodie being able to become a better point shot? It is diversifying his strengths. If you have two guys on the point that can blast the puck at any time, it creates more room for your forwards. Having only one defencemen capable of shooting the puck hard and accurately makes cheating on the other point a gameplan.

What makes Giordano so good is that he is so good at everything - offence, defence, skating with the puck, passing, shooting - he literally does it all. Brodie does it all (and in some areas, better than Giordano) but is a huge step back from the other three in terms of shot velocity and accuracy. If he works on this, he becomes a bigger threat, and forces the other team to play him tighter, allowing more room for Gaudreau or whatever other forward is on the ice. It literally opens up ice. It's a really good thing.

I am all for development. This team is not experienced enough and developed enough to challenge for the cup this year, so in my opinion, development should be the main area of focus. Learning to win, learning to close out games, learning additional skills and forming chemistry with as many linemates as possible. It all helps to turn a team into a contender down the road, in my opinion.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I didn't realize Brodie was some prospect who is still fine tuning his game... You guys are talking about him like he wasn't the best player on the team last year.

This experiment is costing us points and Giordano goals. It might be early but Gio is on pace for less than half his goal total and Brodie less than half his point total.

Brodie playing with Giordano let's Giordano play his game. That's not happening and as a result neither player is looking elite this year.

Yeah it might sound like a great plan to have players work on their weaknesses. It would be super if none of our players had ANY weaknesses. But I like to live in reality.

[northcrunk]

Anyone know what happened in practice between Wideman and GG? Seems like they were yelling at each other according to rodger millions.