[Rumour] Francis: Penguins want 6th OA for Fleury

[oldschoolcalgary]

sure, the penguins could hold onto MAF just to "be sure" that Murray wasn't a flash in the pan...

however, there are only 30 openings for starters in the NHL. The longer they wait, the more likely it is that teams fill that opening with other options...

Let's say that the Pens wait until the end of the year/playoffs to make that switch, how many teams would be there to surrender top assets for MAF (a goalie that many have already noted has a lot of red flags), knowing that the goalie that they currently have will be exposed to the expansion draft as well?

MAF would have to be a clear upgrade on the goalie you went through the season with already...

Anaheim was basically in the same situation and elected to do a deal now rather than wait...Gibson has 66 career starts in the NHL, which isn't a huge number either...

[TapeToTape]

Dallas has to be high on the list to trade for Fleury. One of their two backups with extra to cover the difference to get Fleury as a starter. It might be worth a first rounder from them to get out of their goaltender problem.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by TapeToTape

Dallas has to be high on the list to trade for Fleury. One of their two backups with extra to cover the difference to get Fleury as a starter. It might be worth a first rounder from them to get out of their goaltender problem.

not sure... Dallas won the west last year, so not sure why they'd be interested in MAF?

Dallas' weakness was playoff goaltending... something that most would argue is MAF's biggest deficiency.

Lehtonen/Nemii vs Lehtonen or Nemii/MAF still leaves Dallas with big problem: they can only protect one goalie in the expansion draft.

[TapeToTape]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not sure... Dallas won the west last year, so not sure why they'd be interested in MAF?

Dallas' weakness was playoff goaltending... something that most would argue is MAF's biggest deficiency.

Lehtonen/Nemii vs Lehtonen or Nemii/MAF still leaves Dallas with big problem: they can only protect one goalie in the expansion draft.

I thought Dallas were able to outscore their goaltending during the season but were unable to do the same in the playoffs. I don't think they would have any problem exposing their existing goalies at all.

Losing your backup goalie who is making 4-5M doesn't seem like a bad problem. It means that they won't lose depth from another position. I don't quite buy into the thought that teams will be panicking to not lose a goalie. It only applies in Pittsburgh's situation where you have a guy with a NMC and another goalie that you would rather protect. I agree with the other poster who said that Vegas would be foolish to take some pittance for them not to take Murray. They should be after the upper tier guys wherever they can get them. Depth guys should not be their problem.

[Delthefunky]

Doesn't dallas have a bunch of money tied up in their goalies already?

[TapeToTape]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

Doesn't dallas have a bunch of money tied up in their goalies already?

Yes. Niemi 2 years at 4.5M, and Lehtonen 2 years at 5.9M. My thought is that one of them would be going the other way. There has to be some desperation to do something there considering their playoffs ended.

Niemi : .865 sv%
Lehtonen : .899 sv%

Especially since neither of them have a NMC

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TapeToTape

Yes. Niemi 2 years at 4.5M, and Lehtonen 2 years at 5.9M. My thought is that one of them would be going the other way. There has to be some desperation to do something there considering their playoffs ended.

Niemi : .865 sv%
Lehtonen : .899 sv%

Especially since neither of them have a NMC

But Pittsburgh is in dire need of cap space for this season. I don't think they can realistically take back one of Dallas's goalies.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

sure, the penguins could hold onto MAF just to "be sure" that Murray wasn't a flash in the pan...

however, there are only 30 openings for starters in the NHL. The longer they wait, the more likely it is that teams fill that opening with other options...

Let's say that the Pens wait until the end of the year/playoffs to make that switch, how many teams would be there to surrender top assets for MAF (a goalie that many have already noted has a lot of red flags), knowing that the goalie that they currently have will be exposed to the expansion draft as well?

MAF would have to be a clear upgrade on the goalie you went through the season with already...

Anaheim was basically in the same situation and elected to do a deal now rather than wait...Gibson has 66 career starts in the NHL, which isn't a huge number either...

If would be a bit of a gamble on Pittsburgh's part, that's for sure:

Say the Flames move on and pick up a different goalie (Bishop/Varlamov), that still leaves Reimer on the market for another team who might be looking for a new starter. Pittsburgh is then relying on a playoff-contending team's goalie to have an injury or Bryz-style meltdown mid-season. Who knows; could happen. If they wait until post-season to move MAF teams will actually be able to hold them to ransom, knowing that if Pittsburgh can't unload that NMC they'll lose one of the top young goalies in the league to the expansion draft. Could they simply buy-out MAF, or negotiate with him to remove the NMC? Perhaps, but it's unlikely. Perhaps they aren't completely sold on Murray and the prospect of ditching their veteran #1 for someone relatively unproven is too much of a gamble anyway. If Murray was just a flash in the pan they may be more than happy to leave him exposed next year. They may be happy to roll the dice on losing him.

So, yes is it a gamble on Pittsburgh's part to hang onto MAF & his NMC. It's not just the depreciation in MAF's trade value as the season goes on, but also the possibility that he handcuffs the team and they have to expose Murray. In a year's time they could be faced with receiving a pitiful return for Murray when faced with the inevitability that they would lose him to expansion (assuming he's still good).

At the end of the day, in any event they'll probably end up with a 2nd round pick out of this situation. It's just a matter of which goalie they want to be able to hang onto. If it's Murray then they probably need to act sooner than later.

[Street Pharmacist]

There would lively be more suitors for MAF next season before the expansion draft, no?

Vancouver, possibly Dallas and probably others we haven't found out her

[Go_Flames4ever]

So if the Pens keep both MAF and Murray for another year they run a high risk of losing one of them due to reasons that's been repeatedly beaten to death.

Murray would obviously be the one that hurts the most if he were to be lost after next season. But if you had the opportunity to win a cup again would you not do it? If MAF + Murray gives them the best chance to repeat as champs is it not worth the gamble?

We know damn well the opportunity to win a cup isn't something to sneeze at and isn't that the ultimate goal of playing this game? And for fans to cheer for their team? Would that not be more valuable than a couple of 2nd rounders this year? Even at a cost of no return at the end of the season or a mild negative return?

By the time the expansion draft is around the corner and they're unable to trade MAF (assuming Murray is the real deal), would they not be able to buy him out? Next year's buyout for him ends up to be ~$1.92M cap per year for 4 years. Not great, but it's not crippling either.

I understand that there's a chance that he could be injured and prevents a buyout, but I think that is still worth the gamble to win the ultimate prize.

Just thinking that Rutherford isn't totally over a barrel because of the situation and that he still can keep both.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There would lively be more suitors for MAF next season before the expansion draft, no?

Vancouver, possibly Dallas and probably others we haven't found out her

Possibly, but there'll be a lot more options next summer too. Elliott, Bishop, Mason, Pavelec and Berra to name a few.

[StrykerSteve]

The other point I haven't seen mentioned, is Fleury's trade value is actually quite high right now. One could argue he just had his best season as a pro. If you're going to move him anyway, now would be the best time to do so from a return perspective.

[Vulcan]

Besides Reimer as an UFA option there is also Chad Johnson in Buffalo. He's 30 and been kicking around for a while but he could come cheap as he was only paid $1.6M last season. Played 45 games with a 2.36 GAA and a 0.920 Save Pct. He also had a not shabby 22-16-1 record.

I'm just not interested in paying much in a trade.

[polak]

I'd rather give Ortio another chance than give up 6th overall for a older goalie.

[T@T]

Man, 250+ reply's from a stupid story from a complete hack DJ who has zero insiders within the NHL, why Francis gets this kind of respect boggles my mind.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by T@T

Man, 250+ reply's from a stupid story from a complete hack DJ who has zero insiders within the NHL, why Francis gets this kind of respect boggles my mind.

The thread is about trading for s goalie which we need. Fleury is a logical choice so of course he is being discussed. For the most part people are not discussing the return Francis is talking about since it is BS.

Talking about trading for Fleury has nothing to do with respecting Francis.

[TapeToTape]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But Pittsburgh is in dire need of cap space for this season. I don't think they can realistically take back one of Dallas's goalies.

There were the rumours about trading Malkin. They will still need a backup, so they might find other ways to shed salary.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by TapeToTape

I thought Dallas were able to outscore their goaltending during the season but were unable to do the same in the playoffs. I don't think they would have any problem exposing their existing goalies at all.

Losing your backup goalie who is making 4-5M doesn't seem like a bad problem. It means that they won't lose depth from another position. I don't quite buy into the thought that teams will be panicking to not lose a goalie. It only applies in Pittsburgh's situation where you have a guy with a NMC and another goalie that you would rather protect. I agree with the other poster who said that Vegas would be foolish to take some pittance for them not to take Murray. They should be after the upper tier guys wherever they can get them. Depth guys should not be their problem.

true, but this is the major red flag that everyone cites with regard to MAF.... very good regular season goalie, but has a habit of cracking in the playoffs...

if securing a steady goaltender in the playoffs is the question for Dallas, i am not sure if MAF is the answer

[TapeToTape]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

true, but this is the major red flag that everyone cites with regard to MAF.... very good regular season goalie, but has a habit of cracking in the playoffs...

if securing a steady goaltender in the playoffs is the question for Dallas, i am not sure if MAF is the answer

Agreed. On the other side though some posters have raised the point that he may have overcome this with the sports psychologist he was working with. I was under the impression that his recent playoffs were better.

[FireGilbert]

6th overall?