[PGT] Flames Fall to Oilers Both Games

[CofR]

I can't believe more of a deal hasn't been made about the 3rd man joining in

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You do realize Bollig is a more specialized, and experienced fighter than Smith right?

Both smith and nurse are used to fighting teenagers. Bollig was bloodying his knuckles for 3 years in the NHL and several before that in NCAA. I'd say Bollig would open up the ketchup bottle on both of em.

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by Robbob

So you think he would destroy Gazdic as well? Bollig and Gazdic have fought a few times in the minors. So would you put Nurse in the same category?

Bollig is by no means a nuclear deterrent, but he is by no means a slouch fighting.

I personally think Bollig went over to Nurse just to give him his two cents on the crap he pulled in Penticton. You know the fighters code and all that. IMO Nurse didn't play as close to the edge as he did in Penticton.

He gave the guy a chance to opt out. Nurse didn't drop his gloves. What was he supposed to do?

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, defense takes longer to learn, and expecting 19 and 20 year olds to not make mistakes is unrealistic.

But some context is needed here.

It's not that he is making the usual amount of mistakes for a 20 year old, it's that he makes a lot of bad decisions - especially when he is pressured.

Relative to other 20 year olds.

I agree that the tool box is there. But he is still a bit of a mess defensively.

Far too early to call him a Phaneuf. However, the risk of him Phaneuf-ing is definitely there - it's a possibility, because he does make some terrible decisions when pressured.

Time will tell, and I expect he will become a really good player. But the concerns are valid.

I would disagree, if he were on a team like Calgary, Detroit, Islanders but on Edmonton there's a serious risk he never learns solid two way play. Keep them on the outside in the d-zone, fast breakout passes. Keep the puck active in the offensive zone, high probability shots etc.

Odds are they'll skip major portions of that in Edmonton because the coach is too busy trying to get the rest of the team focused and working hard.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by YoungGuns

I don't think Gazdic is a great fighter. He is 50/50. When he is "on" he's good, otherwise he isn't.

Not quite the denial I thought I would get comparing Gazdic and Nurse. Nurse is the second coming or William Wallace (8 foot tall shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs out of his arse) if you believe what some oiler fans are saying.

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I would disagree, if he were on a team like Calgary, Detroit, Islanders but on Edmonton there's a serious risk he never learns solid two way play. Keep them on the outside in the d-zone, fast breakout passes. Keep the puck active in the offensive zone, high probability shots etc.

Odds are they'll skip major portions of that in Edmonton because the coach is too busy trying to get the rest of the team focused and working hard.

I never get that sentiment. Where do you get off talking about 2-way play? Is your franchise some elite masters at it and have had a long history of those types of players?

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Not quite the denial I thought I would get comparing Gazdic and Nurse. Nurse is the second coming or William Wallace (8 foot tall shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs out of his arse) if you believe what some oiler fans are saying.

Nurse is Mike Tyson compared to Luke.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by YoungGuns

I never get that sentiment. Where do you get off talking about 2-way play? Is your franchise some elite masters at it and have had a long history of those types of players?

Well, right now we kind of do. Long history? For a while there we were a zero way team. Backlund, Giordano, Brodie, Russell, Hamilton, Frolik, Gaudreau, Ferland, Bouma, Stajan, Monahan all play really strong 2 way games. What two way players does Edmonton have?

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Well, right now we kind of do. Long history? For a while there we were a zero way team. Backlund, Giordano, Brodie, Russell, Hamilton, Frolik, Gaudreau, Ferland, Bouma, Stajan, Monahan all play really strong 2 way games. What two way players does Edmonton have?

So your sample size is 1 or 2 years for some of those guys?

[CofR]

I haven't looked in the ENG thread in awhile, did so today... Forgot how much I love Oiler fans before the season starts.

[AcGold]

11 of our 19 skaters are two way players, you asked what makes us elite. Well how many two way players does Edmonton have? Is there even 1?

[Crumpy-Gunt]

You guys are too easy to troll.

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by AcGold

11 of our 19 skaters are two way players, you asked what makes us elite. Well how many two way players does Edmonton have? Is there even 1?

That is not what I asked. How do you come up with that measurement?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by YoungGuns

So your sample size is 1 or 2 years for some of those guys?

Everyone in the list has been with the Flames organization for > 2 years, except Hamilton and Frolik. Yes, I'd say Calgary has been much more successful at developing strong 2 way players than the Oilers. RNH is one of the only Oilers I'd consider a decent 2 way player (less defense but more offense than someone like Backlund). The other would be Pouliot (who wasn't even developed by the Oilers). The rest of your forwards are defensive black holes (Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Draisaitl) or have 0 offense. Same with defense, Nurse is the only one I'd consider 2 way, but it's still too early to be sure, Schultz has probably the worst defensive awareness in the league, Klefbom as shown minimal offense, and that's pretty much all you have for D that was drafted and/or developed by the Oilers.

Its funny that you bring up homegrown talent. It's beating a dead horse, but you need to have some solid, well developed players not picked in the 1st round to be successful. Using the most likely depth charts for each team, Calgary has 6 of their 12 forwards (7 if you count Colborne, who was going nowhere in Toronto) as home grown talent and 2 of their top 6 defenseman (again you could probably argue Russell as well as he hadn't really shown much prior to Calgary). Now for the Oilers. 5 of their top 12 forwards could be consider home grown (if you include McJesus) none of which were selected any later than 22nd overall (only 2 of Calgary's 6 were 1st rounders). And on D, Klefbom, Nurse and Schultz are the only home grown talent, all of whom are 1st rounders (I realize Schultz is a FA signing but he was still a first rounder and spent his whole career so far in Edmonon). Calgary's 2 best home grown (and overall) defenseman are an undrafted FA and a 4th rounder.

Find me one homegrown Oiler player that is a better 2 way player than any Calgary home grown talent.

Edit: didn't realize Schultz was a mid-2nd round pick.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by YoungGuns

That is not what I asked. How do you come up with that measurement?

Stupid or troll? You made a grievance about mentioning Calgary having 2 way players yet are unable to have a conversation about it without going in circles.

[YoungGuns]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Stupid or troll? You made a grievance about mentioning Calgary having 2 way players yet are unable to have a conversation about it without going in circles.

Why are you so negative? Take it easy man.

[robbie111]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

If Granlund can win some face-offs, he is going to make it tough on coaches to send him down. He looks like he should be in the NHL....whether its the flames or not.

I'd like to see him on wing for a game or two maybe on a line with Bennett and Hudler or Gaudreau and Monahan and see if he can shoot more.

He has a wicked shot but doesn't use it much because he is chasing the puck after losing the draw.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by robbie111

I'd like to see him on wing for a game or two maybe on a line with Bennett and Hudler or Gaudreau and Monahan and see if he can shoot more.

He has a wicked shot but doesn't use it much because he is chasing the puck after losing the draw.

I'd say he's a good candidate to be moved to the wing. I'd love to keep the guy on the team but... where? I'd give him Raymond's spot in a heartbeat

[Strange Brew]

As a Flames fan, I would prefer if the Flames didn't make a habit of losing to the Oilers even in the preseason. It is no cause for panic and I have huge hopes for the season. But to think that Oiler fans don't have any reason for optimism is sticking your head in the sand.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

As a Flames fan, I would prefer if the Flames didn't make a habit of losing to the Oilers even in the preseason. It is no cause for panic and I have huge hopes for the season. But to think that Oiler fans don't have any reason for optimism is sticking your head in the sand.

to garner optimism from a pre-season game is ludicrous - why would you care if they do?