Study says gluten sensitivity is fake

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by strombad

Oh, so when I post stuff it's just journalistic BS, but your point of reference for your stance is "Well uh, the Internet?"

I genuinely wanted to see some proof about raw milk being good for you. I haven't found any, that's why I asked you (because I assumed that if you had studies to back up your medical claims). I'm pretty passionate about trying to eat more natural, organic foods that are locally sourced, is say I'm extremely open to raw milk being great for you, I'd certainly try it if what you said was true. I simply haven't found anything suggesting it's true, so I was hoping you had some scientific studies to show me and ease my mind about it's dangers.

There's no bias here, I was genuinely hoping for information. Oh well.

Breaking what I said I wouldn't do.

(1) http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/darkside.html
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(4) Crewe, J., 1929. Raw milk cures many diseases. Certified Milk Magazine, January:3-6.
(5) Fat and Blood, BiblioBazaar, LLC, 2007. Mitchell, S.W., (pp. 119-154) (Available on Google Book Search)
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(13) http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18414121
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(15) http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=128229 (16) Ammendolla, M., Pietrantoni, A., et al, 2007. Bovine lactoferrin inhibits echovirus endocytic pathway by interactingwith viral structural peptides. Antiviral Res 73:151-160
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[photon]

Mmmm copy-pasta!

Here's the actual source:
http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_mi..._benefits.html

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Guys, guys, we're all missing the real issue here. And that's whether or not milk is gluten free

Your right . We kinda High jacked the thread. Pure milk is gluten free Some cheese, yogurt, whipped cream and other processed dairy products may contain gluten from food additives as well, so be sure to check the label. According to the website Celiac.com

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by photon

Mmmm copy-pasta!

Here's the actual source:
http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_mi..._benefits.html

Yes it is . I've read the references before. A lot AF the new studies are based off these works No difference then posting news articles ? When you've only got a touch phone its kinda difficult to type them all out.


Edit. I can do more if you'd like. Was not this thread started as a copy and paste? Any link on this site is a copy and paste

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Your right . We kinda High jacked the thread. Pure milk is gluten free

[photon]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Yes it is . I've read them before. No difference then posting news articles ?

No (other than you can't post the full content of a news article you don't own the copyright to). I didn't say there was a problem posting a list of references, just that it was a copy-paste from somewhere else.

Personally if I copy-paste I usually mention where I got it from, otherwise people might think it was my own work (or that I'm claiming it was my own work).

Not posting where it came from also makes the list semi-useless, since without the claims that are associated with the references it's difficult to know what claim the reference is being used to substantiate.

[photon]

My favourite so far is milk curing tuberculosis.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by photon

My favourite so far is milk curing tuberculosis.

Raw milk: the miracle product that both causes and cures tuberculosis!

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by photon

No (other than you can't post the full content of a news article you don't own the copyright to). I didn't say there was a problem posting a list of references, just that it was a copy-paste from somewhere else.

Personally if I copy-paste I usually mention where I got it from, otherwise people might think it was my own work (or that I'm claiming it was my own work).

Not posting where it came from also makes the list semi-useless, since without the claims that are associated with the references it's difficult to know what claim the reference is being used to substantiate.

The site is listed in the list if you look. Technically, posting the links is saying where I have gotten info.


Bottem line is every Diet can be considered "dangerous". People say eating meat can be bad, read something lately being a vegen is bad etc etc

[photon]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

The site is listed in the list if you look.

Lol so, all that means is the site used itself as a reference, I can't imagine how you see that the list has the site it came from as a reference is relevant. It doesn't help at all in telling others that it's not a personal work nor does it give the mega list of links and references any context.

Like I said that kind of copy-pasta isn't disallowed, it's just really really low on the useful-to-support-a-claim scale.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by photon

Lol so, all that means is the site used itself as a reference, I can't imagine how you see that the list has the site it came from as a reference is relevant. It doesn't help at all in telling others that it's not a personal work nor does it give the mega list of links and references any context.

Like I said that kind of copy-pasta isn't disallowed, it's just really really low on the useful-to-support-a-claim scale.

I never claimed It was . He just asked for some links and I gave them to him. I was trying to avoid further hi-jacking the thread. That was all . Trying to get it back on topic but got drawn back in. Should of just sent it In a p.m .

[photon]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Edit. I can do more if you'd like.

I'm not interested in the subject so none for me.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Was not this thread started as a copy and paste? Any link on this site is a copy and paste

Well yes, and copy/pasting a link has the convenient feature of attributing the source, my only point was that your list didn't attribute the source and I was providing the source to those who would have been interested (an on the off chance that the site are crazy anal about sites "stealing" their content without attribution, we get irate emails and legal sounding stuff yelling at us from time to time).

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Technically, posting the links is saying where I have gotten info.

Yup, though as I said it barely helpful IMO, but if someone had no knowledge of the whole discussion jumping in head first is one way to get immersed I guess.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Bottem line is every Diet can be considered "dangerous". People say eating meat can be bad, read something lately being a vegen is bad etc etc

Totally disagree. Lots of people say lots of things, but there is actually a reality and some diets actually are harmful when people say they aren't and some actually aren't harmful when people say they are. There is a truth and it is in principle discoverable.

Plus "everyone thinks other things are bad too" is a terrible line of reasoning.

[photon]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

He just asked for some links and I gave them to him. I was trying to avoid further hi-jacking the thread. That was all . Trying to get it back on topic but got drawn back in. Should of just sent it In a p.m .

I think posting it to the thread was fine and on-topic for the way the discussion was going, my only point was that it'd have been good to post a link to where it came from too, that was all. Carry on.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by photon

I think posting it to the thread was fine and on-topic for the way the discussion was going, my only point was that it'd have been good to post a link to where it came from too, that was all. Carry on.

I'll make a note of it in the future.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I never claimed It was . He just asked for some links and I gave them to him. I was trying to avoid further hi-jacking the thread. That was all . Trying to get it back on topic but got drawn back in. Should of just sent it In a p.m .

Speaking of: I've been running through your references. A couple issues (which can happen when you just copy-paste instead of actually digging into the studies yourself).

- Not one study supporting the claim that raw milk helps allergies/immune system
- Not one study that denies the very real danger that raw milk poses (including E. coli)
- Many sources are questionable (other writers, their own website, Wikipedia) which doesn't lend this particular website any credibility

Did you even read the article? Much of it has to do with things that pertain to milk in general and not explicitly raw milk. Even some of the things they talk about as beneficial (lactic acid, enzymes, etc) as found in abundance in other, safer foods that don't put people at risk of serious illnesses. I still wouldn't mind seeing some studies that address your claims regarding it helping allergies and the like, as well as something to back up your claim that me stating raw milk was moderately dangerous was, as you put it, "ill informed."

I'm actually a little surprised not one of the 62 references you gave addressed the claims you made.

[combustiblefuel]

Here's the NY Times about the same " farm effect" study as ABC but in much more detail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/op...=opinion&_r=1&

Here's a citation.

The working hypothesis is that innocuous cowshed microbes, plant material and raw milk protect farming children by favorably stimulating their immune systems throughout life, particularly early on. That spring morning, Dr. Holbreich gave me a tour of the bonanza of immune stimuli under consideration.

Here's another article on Amish kids about the same study as ABC roped of the new york times

http://foodfreedomgroup.com/2012/05/...omotes-health/

[combustiblefuel]

This one actually actual has the PowerPoint presentation Dr Beals researched for the gonverment . Just under his Name . Just gotta click it .


http://www.realmilk.com/safety/those...u-should-know/

one more on raw milk

http://www.livestrong.com/article/37...s-of-raw-milk/.


Here's one from Colorado Ent

http://www.coloradoent.com/is-pediat...y-preventable/

"A number of investigations have provided good evidence that this is due to an early-life contact with cowsheds, farm animals, and/or consumption of products like raw milk. A recent study from The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology demonstrated that exposure to two particular microbes, Acinetobacter lwoffi and Lactococcus lactic

Edit here is another from the US Library of National Health "The Gabriela Study"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21875744

[strombad]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Here's the NY Times about the same " farm effect" study as ABC but in much more detail.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/op...=opinion&_r=1&



Here's a citation.



The working hypothesis is that innocuous cowshed microbes, plant material and raw milk protect farming children by favorably stimulating their immune systems throughout life, particularly early on. That spring morning, Dr. Holbreich gave me a tour of the bonanza of immune stimuli under consideration.



Here's another article on Amish kids about the same study as ABC roped of the new york times



http://foodfreedomgroup.com/2012/05/...omotes-health/

That's the same article I presented to you, which clearly states that everything that goes into growing up on a farm early in life benefits a person's immune system. The second link is actually purposely distorting an article that (again) I linked you to already. Both of those studies references can be found in my previous post.

Again, something that tests raw milk, specifically raw milk, and shows it's benefits. I've seen nothing from you yet. To say raw milk helps with allergies, it has to be beneficial on it's own, the "farm effect" aside.
There is, once again, no scientific evidence showing a link between the consumption of raw milk and allergy-fighting abilities.

It's part of an entire puzzle, but useless by itself. If you're advocating everyone grow up on a farm to fight allergies, then yes, evidence supports that.

Saying raw milk helps with allergies is like saying hay from a barn helps with allergies. By itself, it does not. If you disagree, I would implore you to ask any sufferer of "outdoor" allergies to go into a barn and stir up the hay bed, and then tell me how much better their allergies get.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

This one actually actual has the PowerPoint presentation Dr Beals researched for the gonverment . Just under his Name . Just gotta click it .





http://www.realmilk.com/safety/those...u-should-know/

This one is actually interesting to me, as it seems a little less bias and while it does admit to illnesses being born from raw milk, it does have some interesting numbers that suggests it may not be so bad. So thank you, I'll look more into it.

Over 60 references and we finally got to one that has relevance to some of the claims you're making, haha.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by strombad

That's the same article I presented to you, which clearly states that everything that goes into growing up on a farm early in life benefits a person's immune system. The second link is actually purposely distorting an article that (again) I linked you to already. Both of those studies references can be found in my previous post.

Again, something that tests raw milk, specifically raw milk, and shows it's benefits. I've seen nothing from you yet. To say raw milk helps with allergies, it has to be beneficial on it's own, the "farm effect" aside.
There is, once again, no scientific evidence showing a link between the consumption of raw milk and allergy-fighting abilities.

It's part of an entire puzzle, but useless by itself. If you're advocating everyone grow up on a farm to fight allergies, then yes, evidence supports that.

Saying raw milk helps with allergies is like saying hay from a barn helps with allergies. By itself, it does not. If you disagree, I would implore you to ask any sufferer of "outdoor" allergies to go into a barn and stir up the hay bed, and then tell me how much better their allergies get.




This one is actually interesting to me, as it seems a little less bias and while it does admit to illnesses being born from raw milk, it does have some interesting numbers that suggests it may not be so bad. So thank you, I'll look more into it.

Over 60 references and we finally got to one that has relevance to some of the claims you're making, haha.

Raw milk and being around Cattle to be exact.
I'm not just on the allergies thing BUT How Raw milk is beneficial As a whole. This is where I Think we are having ceased wires. Pasturzation destroyes whey protein Its mention many times.

This one has the exact science here is another from the US Library of National Health "The Gabriela Study"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21875744

[strombad]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Raw milk and being around Cattle to be exact.
I'm not just on the allergies thing BUT How Raw milk is beneficial As a whole. This is where I Think we are having ceased wires. Pasturzation destroyes whey protein Its mention many times.

This one has the exact science here is another from the US Library of National Health "The Gabriela Study"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21875744

Interesting. I'll read further. Question though:
Dependant on if the study is indeed conclusive, if it only seems to benefit children in early developmental stages, and the main cause of the benefit is reportedly whey protein, then is this still true?:

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

If you drink it It helps with allergies and asthma , just like if you eat any other locally produced food.

How would I, as an adult, benefit from the consumption of raw milk and whey protein? Are there tests involving adults?
There is not whey protein in every single locally produced food, so if that seems to be the only thing that MAY reduce childhood asthma, how would I, as an adult, benefit my allergies or asthma from eating, say, a locally produced strawberry? Or a locally produced steak? Out of curiosity, of course.