[News] Burke says he is unlikely to trade up... hasn't watched Bennett

[nik-]

Originally Posted by AC

I'd have to agree, especially with the x-factor for Dal Colle being that he was a center until this season (I believe it was as recent as that).

If he had only ever been a LW, I think my stance would change.

I don't even think the LWer thing is an issue. I think our organizational depth on LW is a little overestimated. At this point, from a forward looking standpoint, it's pretty much Sven, VanBrabant and Gaudreau. I think Sven has played some RW in Abbottsford and I see Gaudreau as a guy who can probably play both sides.

The rest are guys like Galiardi, Glencross, Cammy. Who are all not long for this organization.

[AC]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't even think the LWer thing is an issue. I think our organizational depth on LW is a little overestimated. At this point, from a forward looking standpoint, it's pretty much Sven, VanBrabant and Gaudreau. I think Sven has played some RW in Abbottsford and I see Gaudreau as a guy who can probably play both sides.

The rest are guys like Galiardi, Glencross, Cammy. Who are all not long for this organization.

Good to hear Baertschi has played RW this year, I agree Gaudreau could play both as well because of how smart he is.

Klimchuk is a LW too, but your point still stands.

[nik-]

Don't take my word on that RW thing, I just seem to recall it was happening sometimes but my memory is horrible.

I had totally forgotten Klimchuk. Poor guy seems to be the forgotten one from last year. Still, I think taking a LW'er isn't so bad, and yes if he moves to full time Center next year, awesome.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't even think the LWer thing is an issue. I think our organizational depth on LW is a little overestimated. At this point, from a forward looking standpoint, it's pretty much Sven, VanBrabant and Gaudreau. I think Sven has played some RW in Abbottsford and I see Gaudreau as a guy who can probably play both sides.

The rest are guys like Galiardi, Glencross, Cammy. Who are all not long for this organization.

Yeah he did, Ward mentioned that Sven's offensive success came after he switched him back to LW though - so it doesn't sound like RW + Sven agree with each other unfortunately.

[nik-]

ahh well poop

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Unless Dal Colle gets moved back to the middle for the entire year this year I think you 100% slot him as a permanent winger.

What is the situation with the centres ahead of him in Oshawa? Laughton seems to be highly coveted by Philly and I would expect him to go pro this fall (if it's even an option, age-wise). Cassells could still remain as competition, but surely Dal Colle (as their leading scorer) would have dibs on the #1 centre spot if he wanted it.

I see him listed as a centre in many places (HockeyDB, eliteprospects etc) and if the team that drafted him wanted him moved back to C, I don't think there's much anyone can do about it at the CHL level. Just look at the situation with Drouin in Halifax.

I think I prefer Dal Colle to Draisaitl at this stage.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I hear what you are saying but top 10 is way different that top 5. Yes, there will be variations in scouts' lists but everything we've heard is that there is a clear differentiation in the top 5 and the group below. Look at last year where the top six ranked went in the top six. Wild card in this years draft has to be Ritchie and can see a team passing on a Dal Colle and taking Ritchie owing to his power game.

Except last year despite the supposed "consensus" ISS had Monahan ranked 9th and Lindholm 7th. Redline had Lindholm 7th. Nichushkin was a "consensus" top 5 pick according to every scouting service I believe and went what, 10th? Barkov was ranked 5th by ISS and 4th by Redline and went 2nd. If you watch the behind the scenes video Philly had Monahan behind several defensemen. So where was the consensus exactly?

Go back to Yakupov's year and you had teams who had Murray #1 (most EDM scouts, CBJ, etc), Yakupov #1 (not sure who did), Galchenyuk #1 (CGY), and Rielly #1 (TOR). So absolutely no consensus at all that year, not even at the very top.

With Dal Colle's playoff performance he may be top 3-4 on some lists. Draisaitl is probably top 3-4 on some teams lists and outside the top 5 on others. We already know some scouts have Ekblad #1, some have Reinhart #1, some have Bennett #1. Wouldn't surprise me if Ritchie is top 5 for some scouts/teams. Somebody could have Ehlers or Nylander top 5.

I do agree there appears to be grouping of 5 at the top that most people seem to agree on. But anything can happen in the draft. And it doesn't mean everyone has the same people in the top 5. We know that almost everybody disagrees on the order of the top 5-10.

This consensus thing is always overblown.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't even think the LWer thing is an issue. I think our organizational depth on LW is a little overestimated. At this point, from a forward looking standpoint, it's pretty much Sven, VanBrabant and Gaudreau. I think Sven has played some RW in Abbottsford and I see Gaudreau as a guy who can probably play both sides.

The rest are guys like Galiardi, Glencross, Cammy. Who are all not long for this organization.

You missed quite a few.

Gaudreau
Baertschi
Klimchuk
Ferland (LW/RW but a left shooter)
Agostino
Hanowski (RW/LW but a left shooter)
Poirier (RW/LW but a left shooter)
Reinhart
Granlund (may be moved to LW if we're full at C)
Van Brabant

plus

Bouma
Byron (LW/RW/C but a left shooter)
Glencross
Hudler (RW/LW but a left shooter)

that's without counting free agents like Cammalleri/Galiardi.

So we've got Hanowski, Poirier, Hudler playing their off wing already. We can move more guys there.

We'll still take the best player available even if he's LW because we don't have anybody like a Dal Colle in the system but we are pretty loaded both there and at centre.

[OffsideSpecialist]

I went to watch the Generals tonight. Only saw half the game due to getting stuck on the 401 after an incident. Dal Colle and the goaltender Altshuller appeared to be bright spots on what was a terrible night for the Generals.

Dal Colle looked like a big boy in person. If he can fill out his frame, he could be a pretty big guy in the NHL as well. For what it is worth he played both wings but not centre. He looked very fast within what was a fairly slow game tonight.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I hear what you are saying but top 10 is way different that top 5. Yes, there will be variations in scouts' lists but everything we've heard is that there is a clear differentiation in the top 5 and the group below. Look at last year where the top six ranked went in the top six. Wild card in this years draft has to be Ritchie and can see a team passing on a Dal Colle and taking Ritchie owing to his power game.

Ritchie is not the only wildcard. He is PROBABLY the only wildcard for the Flames due to this team needing size desperately in the top 6, but there are others.

Ehlers and Nylander are both top 5/6 potential wildcards as well. Nylander is ranked 5th by ISS at the moment IIRC. Some say Nylander may have the highest offensive potential in the draft, and I have heard the same said about Ehlers.

To put this into perspective: Drouin was selected 3rd overall in a deeper draft with higher-end elite players (and at one time, was even ranked as the first over-all pick for a time). Ehlers plays on his team, and has regularly outshone Drouin (and no, they do not play on the same lines normally, and he is not leaching off of Drouin).

Will the Flames select Nylander or Ehlers? One look at the Flames' top 6 projected prospects says no. Would they perhaps have Ritchie in their top 5? One would have to think yes.

What people really need to stop thinking of is drafting by consensus. This is not the Edmonton Oilers. The Flames' scouting staff have actually been fairly good in the last few years. If they end up having Ritchie as the best available player, that is their ranking. You don't pick players based on consensus.

If it helps to give a bit of an extreme example, think of it this way. Imagine if Ottawa's scouting staff put in a lot more work and decided that the consensus 1st overall selection should be Pronger instead of Daigle (or Bertuzzi, Saku Koivu, Jason Arnott, or Paul Kariya, etc), they would have been much better off, no? At the time, I am sure 99% of Ottawa fans would have been infuriated beyond belief, TSN would be ridiculing them, etc. Every single scouting service had Daigle as by far the best pick in the draft - a generational talent and the second coming of Mario Lemieux. Maybe Ottawa was having second thoughts, and wanted someone else instead, but felt compelled to go by the 'consensus'? We will never know that.

Every year there are surprise risers and fallers that after a few years' worth of hindsight become brilliant moves. The 'consensus' really means squat. There is no consensus really. The only list that matters is that of the Flames' scouting staff. The top 5 rankings from every team could have 2-3 different players on it, especially on a year like this where you do start reading comments from 'anonymous NHL scouts' being quoted in different scouting services stating: "might have the highest potential int he draft", "could be the best player in the draft" - and these things are being said about players outside what you are thinking about as the 'consensus top 5'.

There will be surprises, and the Flames might be one of those teams. Personally I also want one of the 'consensus top 5 picks' too - but I am just happy this year knowing that the Flames are going to be selecting a forward that has a good chance at becoming an elite player and helping the Flames challenge for the cup down the road - whomever that player may be.

[dying4acup]

Ok. My view point. Spoiler: I'm not ver educated!

Reinhart: guaranteed top 2
Ekblad: guaranteed top 4
Bennett: guaranteed top 5

Wild card:

#1- Draisaitl could fall as far as 10 is oil don't take him at 3. That doesn't necessary mean the flames pass, but, I see him as boom or bust. And I bet some teams love him, and a lot of teams don't.

#2- ehlers could be taken by anybody in the top 10, outside of Edmonton and Calgary. At this point I see Edmonton and Calgary having the same needs. I also see both as having to take the safest pick possible. For this reason I hate having the oilers 1 spot ahead, but "it is what it is".

#3- Ritchie if any team drafts according to need, he is a factor. I could see him drop to #20, but I could see a scenario where he goes #4. Hope it's not the case. He is the best at what he does at where he does it.

#4- Nylander was once considered a top 3 pick. Not by me btw. At this point lucky to be top 10. If the Flames take him I'll be stunned. He'll I will start the "FIRE Burke/King/Hartley" thread myself. Not gonna happen. See Burkes history.

Draft board from my perspective is:
1-Ekblad
2-Reinhart
3-Bennett

4-Draisaitl
-because he IS the 4th best player (by a mile) and he's a center
(And from this point on it doesn't matter unless the flames get another top 5pick.

5-Dal Colle he is the best player available. Regardless of position.
6-Ritchie- obviously a Brian Burke guy.
7-Virtanen- see above

[Vulcan]

Myself, I'm hoping Draisaitl, Dal Colle, Ehlers, and anyone else given consideration for the top three picks have great post seasons, and get picked early so we have a shot at Reinhart or Bennett. Ekblad is just a dream at this stage. I also think that those two players are pretty much the consensus picks on CP.

[dissentowner]

Just from his comments and his love of size I would bet the bank if the big three are gone when we pick #4, it will be Ritchie's name called.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Just from his comments and his love of size I would bet the bank if the big three are gone when we pick #4, it will be Ritchie's name called.

I hope not. If our pick was lower, OK, but don't use our earliest pick ever to take someone not on top 4 lists.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I hope not. If our pick was lower, OK, but don't use our earliest pick ever to take someone not on top 4 lists.

Well he already said he won't take the German kid, Dal Colle does not use his size physically, think Joe Colborne. What does that leave?

[Da_Chief]

The dislike for Ritchie is insane in this thread.

A guy with that kind of skill, size, speed and tenacity is easily welcomed on my team any day.

Sometimes if a team really like a prospect they have to go for him. Like Emile Poirier last year. Most pundits questioned that pick and we the Flames fans defended our selection because it was he who the scouting staff wanted.

If it's Ritchie the scouts like then go for it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well he already said he won't take the German kid, Dal Colle does not use his size physically, think Joe Colborne. What does that leave?

He hasn't said that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He hasn't said that.

He sure did.

Originally Posted by Neeper

Ok regarding Drasaitl, Burke added that he doesn't see him as a top 6 forward. More of a bottom 6. And because of that he won't draft him. He then went on to say he doesn't draft Europeans early unless they are a bonfide top 6 player. He would rather fill the bottom 6 with North American kids and not Europeans.

Source: I was at the luncheon.

Unless you are talking about Dal Colle. Those are my own observations, I have seen him play multiple times, reminds me of Colborne.

[Aarongavey]

Doesn't Ritchie sort of combine Bobby Ryan's intensity with Ryan Howse's conditioning? If so I will pass.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Doesn't Ritchie sort of combine Bobby Ryan's intensity with Ryan Howse's conditioning? If so I will pass.

No. I have seen him play quite a bit too and intensity is not an issue at all. I would say DAl Colle has more intensity issues than Ritchie by a mile. He does seem overweight by his listed weight and yet he is surprisingly fast and agile for a guy his size. He is not like Howse at all, he has the commitment to get better and the Flames trainers could get that done. Truth be told this guy might be the steal of the draft because he is a total beast out there.