Blue Jays 2013/14 off season

[Flickered Flame]

Read on twitter this morning that Gibbons said that the Jays were in on Jimenez before he signed with Baltimore.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...eting-jimenez/

[nik-]

Ugh, probably a blessing in disguise. It looks like we missed our chance to wedge ourselves into the top of the AL East. Move out Bautista and some others and start again.

If only we could have landed Darvish.

[The Big Chill]

Are people seriously saying that it's Jimenez or rebuild? He's had a couple good years and a couple not so good years. It would have been nice to add him for the right price, but that's really going overboard.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Are people seriously saying that it's Jimenez or rebuild?

I think people are more saying "commit to winning or rebuild". It's not Jimenez specifically... he's just the latest example of a player that the Jays need very much signing an entirely reasonable deal with someone else.

Jimenez or rebuild? No. Refuse to stand pat or rebuild? I'd say yes.

[nik-]

Yeah, Jimenez wasn't the "it", but it's kinda symbolic of an off season where nothing was done and where we're getting past the point of bothering with our two top players.

The Yankees got better, the Orioles got better, and the Sox and Rays are already better than us and we got nothing done. Pack it in and move out valuable pieces for a vision a few years out.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think people are more saying "commit to winning or rebuild". It's not Jimenez specifically... he's just the latest example of a player that the Jays need very much signing an entirely reasonable deal with someone else.

Jimenez or rebuild? No. Refuse to stand pat or rebuild? I'd say yes.

This exactly.

When the jays have 3 black holes at Catcher #4 starter and 2nd base and you only address catcher with an average replacement, there is cause for concern.

Jimenez isn't awesome by any stretch, but he would be perfect as a #4. Would Hutchison/Drabek/Stroman/Sanchez be able to walk in and provide something similar? maybe, but what ifs and maybe's don't really cut it in the AL east because the other teams have surer things.

As for 2nd base, Goins and Izturis are both bench players at best. Stephen Drew is out there for not a huge amount and he'd be a good 2B. We don't have any options for 2nd in the system.

Not addressing any of the needs of the club is a joke, especially when you finished 14 games below .500 is pathetic. I know that some guys will be better, but they need to win 90+ games, and those players might contribute 5-8 wins not 15-20.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Are people seriously saying that it's Jimenez or rebuild? He's had a couple good years and a couple not so good years. It would have been nice to add him for the right price, but that's really going overboard.

No, folks are expressing concern that the Jays with their current Roster will not compete in the AL East.

Personally I believe a rebuild is the wrong choice...

Jays in my view are lacking pieces to be competitive.

Question is why have the Jays been unable to accomplish anything in the off season?

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think people are more saying "commit to winning or rebuild". It's not Jimenez specifically... he's just the latest example of a player that the Jays need very much signing an entirely reasonable deal with someone else.

Jimenez or rebuild? No. Refuse to stand pat or rebuild? I'd say yes.

Then maybe we should wait and see how the rest of the off-season plays out before we call for rebuilds.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Then maybe we should wait and see how the rest of the off-season plays out before we call for rebuilds.

Technically the off season is over, some of the players (Catchers & Pitchers) reported to Spring Training last weekend.

[Cheese]

lets play glass half full fella's.
Maybe the Red Sox and Yankees will get a taste of the injury bug this year and take them out of the show? Maybe the Jays finally get a year where everyone plays over their heads and we get few or no injuries? Maybe? Im always hopeful I guess that we will finally get that one player that was groomed come up and play lights out...then again

[flames_fan_down_under]

I will be frustrated if we have Lawrie bouncing from 3rd base to 2nd base again this season. That was such a stupid decision last year, moving Brett to 2nd after 50 games at 3rd.

Hard to believe how little has been done over the off season.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Then maybe we should wait and see how the rest of the off-season plays out before we call for rebuilds.

Well Spring Training has started and the only pitcher worth a damn left on the market is Santana (and I consider him to be the least desirable of the top tier of free agent pitchers that were once available this offseason). So yeah... I'd say that the offseason is pretty much played out.

Jays need to either put in what's required to legitimately compete this year and next or they need to leverage Rasmus, Reyes, Bautista, Encarnation, Dickey, and Janssen before it's too late.

[Sylvanfan]

I still think the Jays could find a way to trade Bautista but still field a reasonably competitive team. His health has not been great the past two years, and at times I think he's too focuses on fighting umpires and not focusing on doing things for the team to win.

It is frustrating to see them put their chips on the table last year...than seemingly pull them back in again this year. Either commit 100% to trying to for it, or commit entirely to a rebuild. They've been one foot in and one foot out for too many years save last year and as a result have become one of the most irrelevant franchises in the league. Only Kansas City comes to mind as a team who's had a longer playoff drought than the Jays.

[Jason14h]

Stephen Drew is out there for not a huge amount and he'd be a good 2B. We don't have any options for 2nd in the system.

Mike Puma of the New York Post reports that it's "clear" that agent Scott Boras still wants Stephen Drew to get at least $14 million this season.
Drew turned down a one-year, $14.1 million qualifying offer from the Red Sox to test free agency, so Boras is still aiming to find a similar salary for his client on the open market. The Mets aren't going there and he'll likely be hard-pressed to find it elsewhere, especially with draft pick compensation attached. The wait continues. Feb 18 - 2:01

[howard_the_duck]

Very frustrating news about Jimenez. I'm not sure whether or not he's the piece that pushes them over the top in the AL East and maybe that's why AA wasn't able to sell it through to ownership. Either way, really poor message to be giving the fan base when Jimenez essentially signed for half of what he was forecasted at the beginning of the offseason.

Guess we can hope for Santana, but I might honestly prefer they save their bullets and give his spot to Hutchison/Stroman/Drabek to see what we've got. This team can still be reasonably competitive IMO.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

but I might honestly prefer they save their bullets and give his spot to Hutchison/Stroman/Drabek to see what we've got.

See, I could buy that if this (getting a league average+ piece for the rotation) was the only thing the Jays had left. But the Jays batting order had a black hole at 2B, a DH/1B who can't hit lefties, and a catcher who was I think a mere 4 plate appearances away from having the worst season amoung qualified batters in MLB history (and thus didn't qualify). The only one they've addressed was the catcher and they addressed it by signing a guy to a contract with $$ that Arencibia was due to make in arbitration anyways.

If the Jays want to believe that some combination of Hutchison/Stroman/Nolin/Drabek can deliver a performance on par or better then what Jimenez/Santana/Garza etc. etc. could have provided... okey fine but they should have reallocated the resources towards filling those other holes. The Jays must have budgeted the 14M a qualifying offer would cost to Johnson when they acquired him... I'm annoyed that they're electing not to use those $$ to shore up any other part of the team where there most obviously isn't an internal upgrade.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

This team can still be reasonably competitive IMO.

Yes they can. But that competitiveness is entirely dependent on luck... IMO you never want to depend on luck.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Parallex

See, I could buy that if this (getting a league average+ piece for the rotation) was the only thing the Jays had left. But the Jays batting order had a black hole at 2B, a DH/1B who can't hit lefties, and a catcher who was I think a mere 4 plate appearances away from having the worst season amoung qualified batters in MLB history (and thus didn't qualify). The only one they've addressed was the catcher and they addressed it by signing a guy to a contract with $$ that Arencibia was due to make in arbitration anyways.

If the Jays want to believe that some combination of Hutchison/Stroman/Nolin/Drabek can deliver a performance on par or better then what Jimenez/Santana/Garza etc. etc. could have provided... okey fine but they should have reallocated the resources towards filling those other holes. The Jays must have budgeted the 14M a qualifying offer would cost to Johnson when they acquired him... I'm annoyed that they're electing not to use those $$ to shore up any other part of the team where there most obviously isn't an internal upgrade.



Yes they can. But that competitiveness is entirely dependent on luck... IMO you never want to depend on luck.

No argument from me here on that point. Their 2nd base situation is a disgrace. My position is that Santana isn't enough of an upgrade for the $ and term, and I think he'd get lit up at the RC. I'd rather see what we've got and AA look for a deal in July.

AA's biggest issue thus far has been managing fans' expectations. Don't come out and say you need 1-2 top of the rotation pitchers and a 2B if there's no reasonable assurance you can fill those holes. 2 of the last 3 offseasons he's failed pretty miserably in that regard.

[KelVarnsen]

I have nothing to add to the Blue Jays off-season discussion. So here is a picture of Lind rocking a pretty nice beard.

http://twitpic.com/dw8vnd

[Cheese]

Scott Boras with some unpleasantness towards the Jays organization.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=444568

Baseball's most prominent agent, Scott Boras, openly criticized the Toronto Blue Jays' stagnant offseason on Sunday, likening the team to a "car with a huge engine that is impeded by a big corporate stop sign."
Speaking to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, Boras, the man who represents the likes of Texas Rangers slugger Prince Fielder, 2013 AL Cy Young winner Max Scherzer of the Detroit Tigers and Washington Nationals phenom Bryce Harper, places the blame on general manager Alex Anthopoulos's failure to dip into the free agent market on the shoulders of Jays' ownership, a group Boras deems "a successful and committed ownership that needs to give their baseball people financial flexibility."

[SuperMatt18]

Aka open up your wallet and sign Stephen Drew.