Calgary offers picks 6, 22, 28 for the first overall: no dice

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Where are the Oilers? where are the Avs? where are the Rangers? Where are the Canes? Where are the Panthers?

The only team out of the 5 you mentioned here that the flames will be battling with is the Panthers. I think you can add Buffalo, but thats about it. Flames will be done before X-mas next year.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by jeffman

I think that those teams got their skill first before adding depth. Each of those teams were built around skill like Staal, Getzlaf Perry Crosby, Kopitar, Bergeron, Crosby,Malkin Doughty , Toews, Kane, Keithand filled in veterans for depth later like Rechhi, Guerin, Madden, Campbell, Richards later

In each team's case, they actually drafted their supporting cast (Keith/Seabrook, Kopitar/Brown, Bergeron, Letang/Fleury/Orpik etc) before getting their star players, and then added the final pieces after that. The problem is that we don't really have a supporting cast yet, so if we add the star players in then by the time the contracts are up we will have to lose some of the depth and we're screwed. You need everything to line up properly.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

You seriously think the Panthers are going to be good next year? The Avs are going to be just as bad next year with Patrick Wahhhhh as their coach. What a dumb sentimental move by Avs mgmt.

The Canes are the only team that might rebound but that defence looks pretty terrible even with Ward back in net.

I didn't say these teams will be good, just better, as in not bottom 5 bad.

[GirlySports]

I think the Habs will fall apart and suck next year back to 2012 levels. This year was a shortened-season fluke.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

You seriously think the Panthers are going to be good next year? The Avs are going to be just as bad next year with Patrick Wahhhhh as their coach. What a dumb sentimental move by Avs mgmt.

The Canes are the only team that might rebound but that defence looks pretty terrible even with Ward back in net.

Almost every comment you make is based on opinion over fact. How can you say Roy would be bad for sure?

The Avalanche are most likely going to draft Seth Jones who will tremendously help their defensive core. They have a young group of centers and wingers (who are more mature) and if Varlamov has another good season like he has shown in the past, the Avalanche will not be picking 1-3 overall. They also get a full year of O'Reilly.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think the Habs will fall apart and suck next year back to 2012 levels. This year was a shortened-season fluke.

Columbus is another team likely to plummet.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by nik-

Columbus is another team likely to plummet.

I really don't think they will. I think they will be the Phoenix and Nashville of past years and continuously make the playoffs even after everyone doubts them.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think the Habs will fall apart and suck next year back to 2012 levels. This year was a shortened-season fluke.

I don't think they will make the playoffs, but they are not going to be worse than the flames.

[GirlySports]

Remember that the Flames get to play the sucky East teams next year. That alone gives them an 8 point lead.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The thing that makes zero sense to me is that a team needs to have about 7-8 really good players on it to be a contender

Kings - Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Richards, Quick, Doughty, Voynov
Hawks - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson
Bruins - Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Lucic, Rask, Krejic,
Penguins - Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Morrow, Dupuis, Letang, Kunitz (each team has more, this is off the top of my head)

The Flames currently have Baertschi and Brodie. Jankowski and Gaudreau are the two other prospects that have the best chance to be added to that list, but that's really it. We have a chance to add 1 guy for sure onto the list with Baertschi and Brodie, and another two into the solid maybe category.

Frankly we are going to suck next year and the year after. Get Ho Sang, Ekblad or Reinhart next year, and Saarela or whomever in 2015 to get the star power. The thing with exceptional players is that they are going to be there each year to a varying degree.

Rushing to get a star player like MacKinnon might be will just mean that the following year's picks will not be as good and the team will get to the playoffs sooner but the team will not ever be a contender and will have to tear down again after 10 more years of frustration

these took years of tanking to accumulate their core... not one draft with 3 1st round draft picks

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Almost every comment you make is based on opinion over fact. How can you say Roy would be bad for sure?

The Avalanche are most likely going to draft Seth Jones who will tremendously help their defensive core. They have a young group of centers and wingers (who are more mature) and if Varlamov has another good season like he has shown in the past, the Avalanche will not be picking 1-3 overall. They also get a full year of O'Reilly.

I agree Roy coming in will already make a huge impact. I think part of the reason the Avs sucked this year was because Sacco lost control of his room. Roy won't tolerate that bull sht and he will get the most out the players who give a dam like Duschene, Jones and Gigeure

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The thing that makes zero sense to me is that a team needs to have about 7-8 really good players on it to be a contender

Kings - Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Richards, Quick, Doughty, Voynov
Hawks - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson
Bruins - Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Lucic, Rask, Krejic,
Penguins - Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Morrow, Dupuis, Letang, Kunitz (each team has more, this is off the top of my head)

The Flames currently have Baertschi and Brodie. Jankowski and Gaudreau are the two other prospects that have the best chance to be added to that list, but that's really it. We have a chance to add 1 guy for sure onto the list with Baertschi and Brodie, and another two into the solid maybe category.

Frankly we are going to suck next year and the year after. Get Ho Sang, Ekblad or Reinhart next year, and Saarela or whomever in 2015 to get the star power. The thing with exceptional players is that they are going to be there each year to a varying degree.

Rushing to get a star player like MacKinnon might be will just mean that the following year's picks will not be as good and the team will get to the playoffs sooner but the team will not ever be a contender and will have to tear down again after 10 more years of frustration

these took years of tanking to accumulate their core... not one draft with 3 1st round draft picks... but i understand what you are trying to say

[keenan87]

Bertuzzied... How about we make a bet.

If the Flames draft top 5 next season (with their own pick and if they do not trade the pick), you can never bring up the idea of Clutterbuck for a first round pick again on CP.

If the Flames draft outside of the top 5 (based on standings), I will have a sig or avatar of your choice.

[JohnnyB]

I like that a GM is trying to get top quality players, but I dislike the continued failure. It means nothing if it doesn't happen. It's a bit of the same feeling as with ROR, that Feaster is making a show of trying really hard to get top quality players but simply isn't capable of getting it done. Who leaked this info out?

Only paying attention to the deals that have gone through, I don't think Feaster has done a great job of getting top quality, young players. Of course it's not easy, but what results are there to show for his work in his role? While it's nice that the franchise is recognizing their value now, there's nothing to be satisfied with in saying "We tried!" On the contrary, there's a certain air of desperation and incompetence about it.

Many criticize Sutter as a GM now, but I liked the fact that he would just come out of nowhere with an unexpected big trade or signing. There was a clear display of ability to get things done in the way he went about and the fact that he came out with actual results. Real trades and acquisitions happened, not failed attempts at big plays.

In short, I suppose I would rather overall silence from management about their plans and attempts interspersed with real results in trades and aquisitions that serve as evidence of having a feasible plan and the ability to make real steps towards achieving it. I don't see the evidence of it now.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

these took years of tanking to accumulate their core... not one draft with 3 1st round draft picks... but i understand what you are trying to say

Definitely, and we aren't going to magically get better immediately either, but having three picks in a good draft will make it a bit quicker of a turn around if we hit the mark than just one, and with a better shot at developing a team that could be a cup contender than an also ran.

[drPepper1]

The Avs have built a great supporting cast with young first round picks. Now they want to add that key franchise player, makes sense they didn't accept the offer.

Flames might as well stock up the cupboards and hopefully we land a franchise player in a few years..

[nik-]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I really don't think they will. I think they will be the Phoenix and Nashville of past years and continuously make the playoffs even after everyone doubts them.

They got a ridiculous performance out of Bobrovsky that I just don't think is going to be replicated.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Definitely, and we aren't going to magically get better immediately either, but having three picks in a good draft will make it a bit quicker of a turn around if we hit the mark than just one, and with a better shot at developing a team that could be a cup contender than an also ran.

Not if two of those three picks aren't nearly as good as some of CP thinks they will be.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by saillias

How is that at worst? This is the best case scenario.

The worst case scenario is 3 busts. And it happens, and happens often.

It happens often that a team picks thrice in the opening round and all 3 bust????

[atb]

I think people are really overrating what you can get with the 6th pick. Posted this in another thread draft thread, but it's applicable here:

1st - 3rd Overall Picks From 2000-2010:
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin
Erik Gudbranson
John Tavares
Victor Hedman
Matt Duchene
Steven Stamkos
Drew Doughty
Zach Bogosian
Patrick Kane
James Van Riemsdyk
Kyle Turris
Erik Johnson
Jordan Staal
Jonathan Toews
Sidney Crosby
Bobby Ryan
Jack Johnson
Alexander Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Cam Barker
Marc-Andre Fleury
Eric Staal
Nathan Horton
Rick Nash
Kari Lehtonen
Jay Bouwmeester
Ilya Kovalchuk
Jason Spezza
Alexandr Svitov
Rick DiPietro
Dany Heatley
Marian Gaborik

5th - 7th Overall Picks From 2000-2010:
Nino Niederreiter
Brett Connolly
Jeff Skinner
Brayden Schenn
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Nazem Kadri
Luke Schenn
Nikita Filatov
Colin Wilson
Karl Alzner
Sam Gagner
Jakub Voracek
Phil Kessel
Derick Brassard
Kyle Okposo
Carey Price
Gilbert Brule
Jack Skille
Blake Wheeler
Al Montoya
Rostislav Olesz
Thomas Vanek
Milan Michalek
Ryan Suter
Ryan Whitney
Scottie Upshall
Joffrey Lupul
Stanislav Chistov
Mikko Koivu
Mike Komisarek
Raffi Torres
Scott Hartnell
Lars Jonsson


Comparing the top 3 picks to the 5th-7th picks, how many franchise players are in the 2nd list? Carey Price and Ryan Suter? You would have to hit a couple home runs in 22nd and 28th picks to make this deal seem even remotely lopsided in the Avs favour.

Without a doubt you do that trade to get a guy like MacKinnon.