Valeri Nichushkin Discussion

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by robaur

Yes exactly.

Why would you choose to make like $100K instead of $3M simply to prove to your team that you are too good for a lower tier league if you know that you are too good.

It's not being selfish, it's being true to yourself. If he came to the NHL and didnt produce then you could make the argument that he isnt good enough for NHL.

That's like your employer telling you to take a low salary in order to prove yourself when you know that you are worth much more....you would never take the deal.

You have everything out of whack here.

The only reason a team would send him to the AHL would be I he needed it.

If he is the greatest player on earth, as you keep suggesting, then it shouldn't be a problem, right?

But he sounds unwilling to do that, which is a bad attitude and I would not want him on my team as a result

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by robaur

Players like Brodie and Baertschi were extremely pissed to go to the AHL and they weren't criticized...

Nichushkin is a level above them and he doesn't want to play in AHL so he is stereotyped as a "selfish Russian".

If you honestly believe that a 17 year old Nichushkin is better - today - than a 20 year old Baertschi and a 22 year old Brodie, who is playing over 20 minutes a night in the NHL, then with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If you honestly believe that a 17 year old Nichushkin is better - today - than a 20 year old Baertschi and a 22 year old Brodie, who is playing over 20 minutes a night in the NHL, then with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about

Might not be right now, there is a better than good chance he does end up being better at 20-22. Speed and Size being the main components in my theory. Helps he has some finish as well.

If the media keeps crapping on Nichushkin the better he falls down the ladder and comes to CGY with the St.Louis pick, which I am all for. Spots are available on the RW.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Might not be right now, there is a better than good chance he does end up being better at 20-22. Speed and Size being the main components in my theory. Helps he has some finish as well.

If the media keeps crapping on Nichushkin the better he falls down the ladder and comes to CGY with the St.Louis pick, which I am all for. Spots are available on the RW.

He may well become a better player and I am not suggesting otherwise.

But a 20 year old Baertschi and a 22 year old Brodie needed AHL time. If a 17 year old Nichushkin thinks that he is already too good for the AHL, then he has serious attitude and prima dona issues.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He may well become a better player and I am not suggesting otherwise.

But a 20 year old Baertschi and a 22 year old Brodie needed AHL time. If a 17 year old Nichushkin thinks that he is already too good for the AHL, then he has serious attitude and prima dona issues.

I wouldn't categorize the attitude as prima dona more so than just an honest opinion based on self confidence. I understand he could say "I will do anything the team asks me to, I want to be the best player for my team and if that means going to the AHL, Fine by me." and everyone would be super cheery and happy to draft him.

But there is a ring of truth to his comments. He's already played in the second best hockey league in the world (albeit sheltered minutes), why should he think otherwise? I chalk it up to Confidence. Rightfully can be argued to be over-confidence. Kid is going to have to back those words at one point.

Problem is though, I find a lot of russian to english gets lost in translation so I generally do not take translated material too seriously.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What a ridiculous comment. Players are trying to make the NHL, where they will be paid millions. Teams are trying to win.

The attitude of the players is vital to the process.

Except he would be making more by just staying in the KHL.

I don't have a huge issue with the statement, especially when the exact sentiment can be lost in translation. But seriously, why play in a lesser league for substantially less money? Easy to say you would play for 50k instead of a couple million, a lot harder to actually do it when in that position.

Sure might learn a bit about the NA game, and could probably have answered more politically and less candid but I think a huge stretch not to take him because of that. As long as you're confident he wants to play in the NHL, that's good enough I think.

[ignite09]

Yeah, the prima donna shots are a little much. How dare an 18 year old want to stay home and play for 2 mil. As opposed to flying half way around the world to play for a tenth of that. You want to say, as a fan of an NHL team, that this decision is concerning as far as him coming over here fine. The personal shots however are more people here making #### up to support their opinion of a prospect than actual insite.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Yeah, the prima donna shots are a little much. How dare an 18 year old want to stay home and play for 2 mil. As opposed to flying half way around the world to play for a tenth of that. You want to say, as a fan of an NHL team, that this decision is concerning as far as him coming over here fine. The personal shots however are more people here making #### up to support their opinion of a prospect than actual insite.

'insight' is one of those words that you don't want to spell incorrectly

[ignite09]

Point still stands.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Point still stands.

And fair enough.

Players should be - and need to be - confident. I think there is a difference between confidence and thinking they are too good for the minor leagues, but it is an opinion only.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And fair enough.

Players should be - and need to be - confident. I think there is a difference between confidence and thinking they are too good for the minor leagues, but it is an opinion only.

I agree, there's that fine line between confidence and cockiness. But his thinking here could be more along the lines of believing the KHL is a higher quality league than the AHL. So why go and play in a lesser league? If he's not going to make the NHL that's fine, he can stay in the KHL until he can. Bonus that he's going to make several million more and not be taking a bus to cities he's never been to in a country he's not used to.

I don't blame him. Anyone willing to travel half way across the world, away from their friends and families, to do a lesser quality job for a tenth of their current salary is probably the person I would consider with "issues" in any other profession.

[Vulcan]

It isn't that the AHL is equal to the KHL, it's that a Euro skater may learn the Canadian style and get used to the smaller rink by spending some time there. He's a young guy and doesn't see the point of this but it shows his unwillingness to fit in which is a danger.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It isn't that the AHL is equal to the KHL, it's that a Euro skater may learn the Canadian style and get used to the smaller rink by spending some time there. He's a young guy and doesn't see the point of this but it shows his unwillingness to fit in which is a danger.

I agreed as much in my other post. But the difference is far overstated. If you're good enough for the NHL, you're good enough for the NHL. Europeans who come over and play in the AHL isn't so much to get used to the "Canadian style" and smaller rinks, it's because they aren't good enough yet.

Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Brodin and Brunner came over from Europe this year. All of them played in the NHL because they were NHL players.

[Pointman]

Just because he doesn't want to play in AHL, it doesn't mean he thinks he's "too good". Could be that he just doesn't want to play for AHL money. Which is understandable. Just ask yourself, if you feel like coming across the ocean and take a job for 10% of what you are making. If AHL was a level above KHL, but still 10 times less the cash, he would most likely don't come either (this is a speculation on my part, though, not something he said himself).

[puckedoff]

He made that statement when he was thinking he'd play out 2 more years on his contract as well. If this guy comes over in 2 years, there is no chance that he will need AHL time, and it would be hard to convince him to move to North America for a two way potential AHL salary.

[calgarybean]

Pass....I know ego can help and hinder but at least step into the ring before throwing a verbal punch like this.

Look at Sven this year...AHL was the best thing for him.

Don't want or need a head case like this...we just went thru this ego thing with Erixon

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by calgarybean

Pass....I know ego can help and hinder but at least step into the ring before throwing a verbal punch like this.

Look at Sven this year...AHL was the best thing for him.

Don't want or need a head case like this...we just went thru this ego thing with Erixon

Maybe if we offer him first line minutes Filotov II will sign.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by calgarybean

Pass....I know ego can help and hinder but at least step into the ring before throwing a verbal punch like this.

Look at Sven this year...AHL was the best thing for him.

Don't want or need a head case like this...we just went thru this ego thing with Erixon

Ignorant comments

[Bourque's Twin]

Who is most likely to choose Nichushkin?

The top 4 picks seem to be a lock (Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, and Barkov)
after that the draft is
Carolina
Calgary
Edmonton
Buffalo
New Jersey
Dallas

How far could he slide? If Carolina wants Nurse, Monahan, or Lindholm then he slides to Calgary. The Flames would be stupid to not take one of Monahan or Lindholm because they desperately need a good C prospect. Edmonton would be stupid to not take Nurse, Ristolainen, or Zadorov.

Could Nichushkin fall all the way to Buffalo? If so, 2 of Monahan, Lindholm, Nurse, Ristolainen, or Zadorov will still be available. Would Buffalo want one of them?

ISS has Nichushkin ahead of MacKinnon, Drouin, and Barkov... Maybe the Flames package both their firsts to Buffalo so they can walk away with Monahan/Lindholm and Nichuskin...

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Could Nichushkin fall all the way to Buffalo?

ISS has Nichushkin ahead of MacKinnon, Drouin, and Barkov... Maybe the Flames package both their firsts to Buffalo so they can walk away with Monahan/Lindholm and Nichuskin...

I think Buffalo would just gladly draft Nichushkin. I'm sure they were thrilled to draft Grigorenko after him falling last year, think they do the same with Nichushkin in that scenario.

Nichushkin at 6'4'' being centered by his countryman Grigorenko at 6'3'' could become a pretty intimidating line if they continue to develop.

I would temper expectations if you plan on being able to move into the top 10 with the 2 other picks.