First nations will blockade roads as part of 'Idle No More' protest

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In terms of Vulcan, I will be the first to admit I'm wrong, and I was basing my information off of information that I'd received about Natives in this province receiving 25k on their 18th birthday. The intent of the post wasn't to deceive but to agree with a previous post that the right answer might not be handing checks out with no expectation or oversight or help.

I know Vulcan called me out fairly harshly, but I was wrong and I probably deserved a slap in the face.

Edit, however I will also add on that the information from the audit the for example $306,000 in consulting fees with no backing documentation and no information on the individual that it went to, and the 1.1 million dollar real estate deal with no information on the property purchased and the seller are all discussed in the audit and also in media sources, so I'm not going to back down on the audit information, and the mere feeling that the result of the audit isn't due to a lack of education on Spence and her boyfriends part but a sense of fairly deliberate actions of corruption.

No worries, I'm ticked off with this thread and how it started with the first few pages devoted to racial remarks without considering the reasons for the protests.

On the other hand I have no sympathy for Chief Spence and from what info available she looks like she's part of the problem.

[WhiteTiger]

Doesn't all this just reinforce the questions about "where do the millions go?" though? Ok, so the Natives get their $5 Treaty Day stuff. They get a free house if available on the reserve, they get some other things. Then even more than ever, I want to know where the millions of taxpayer dollars are going! Yes, the majority of Natives are living a raw deal right now, but how much of that is Canada's fault...and how much of it is due to greedy/crooked Chiefs? Could this have been 'fixed' years ago if Bands were held to account for the spending of the funds they received? Would they still be living in squalor if how the money they were sent was spent was public knowledge?

They seem to be getting a lot of money. Quite a lot of money. All debating about whether or not it's deserved aside, if this money being given was actually properly managed...how much of this discussion would 'we' still be having in the first place?

[CaptainCrunch]

I was thinking about this today. A few years back we had several high profile cases of corporate corruption, the Enrons, WorldComs, Comrad Black. companies that cooked the books, and there was an outraged call to get them the executives of these organizations arrested dragged through the courts and sentenced to long jail terms.

what they did book keeping wise and corruption wise and what Spence is doing aren't entirely different. Why aren't there more out cries from the media and the people and everyone else to hold Spence and her boyfriend to the same standards.

We chuckled at Rob Fords situation and a lot of media circuits and other groups openly cheered when the courts had him thrown out of office. Yet we're not hearing the same outcries for Spence.

I know I'm going to sound like a horrible person, but Spence isn't being held to the same standards because she's a Band Chief, and to me that's wrong.

If we're going to fix the system the first thing that has to happen is that we have to treat these situations the same way as we would treat a corporation, or a corrupt mayor or anything like that and not be blinded by the color of her skin or the people that she supposedly represents.

We're doing the Native's in Canada a huge disservice by not working harder to expose crap like this and seeing it dealt with like we would deal with everything else.

My 2 cents and two glasses of scotch talking.

[Jacks]

CBC reported this morning that Spence was going to the meeting then a couple of hours later that story was gone.

Then this.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01...ral-not-going/

Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence says she is no longer attending her long-sought meeting with Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Friday because Governor General David Johnston will not be going.

Spence made the statement after a morning of conflicting statements to various media outlets about whether she would be attending Friday’s meeting. This came a day after a Toronto Star reporter said she was kicked off the Victoria Island site where Spence is set up by her supporters and a Global News crew was reportedly escorted off Attawapiskat by band police after trying to interview residents. Spence reportedly also declared she would not attend the meeting with Harper unless Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty was also in attendance. The outgoing Ontario premier would be unavailable to attend because he will be in China. McGuinty is not mentioned in her statement.

Spence’s move comes as some First Nations leaders say that Spence’s fiscal mismanagement is indefensible and it threatens to undermine reserves that keep their books in order. “I admire what Spence is doing, but it’s tough to defend those numbers,” Kanesatake Grand Chief Serge Simon told the Montreal Gazette shortly after a damning audit into Attawapiskat’s finances was released.
“When something like this happens, it kind of rubs off on all of us,” added Ryan Rice, an administrator for the Kahnawake Mohawk Council.
“But the truth is, we never run a deficit and our books are always balanced,” he said.

Sounds like she is now regretting the decision to thrust herself into the spotlight.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Jacks

CBC reported this morning that Spence was going to the meeting then a couple of hours later that story was gone.

Then this.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01...ral-not-going/


Sounds like she is now regretting the decision to thrust herself into the spotlight.

I beginning to think she might have been more correct with her initial request of asking for a meeting with Oprah - she could pull a Lance Armstrong and confess.

[The Yen Man]

It's so blatantly obvious that Spence's "hunger strike" was a desperate attempt to divert attention away from the audit report, and her way of trying to discredit the report. She can now use the excuse that Harper has it in for her, since the report came out during her publicity stunt. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this, since all along the audit report was planned to be released this month. Its just pure coincidence it happened during her hunger strike right? That woman should be jailed for fraud.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

It's so blatantly obvious that Spence's "hunger strike" was a desperate attempt to divert attention away from the audit report, and her way of trying to discredit the report. She can now use the excuse that Harper has it in for her, since the report came out during her publicity stunt. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this, since all along the audit report was planned to be released this month. Its just pure coincidence it happened during her hunger strike right? That woman should be jailed for fraud.

Any evidence of the fraud? I can see the accounting issues, but honestly that doesn't mean its fraudulent, that means it wasn't recorded properly and paperwork wasn't kept.

I know that the easy red-flag is that her lover is the manager...but he was agreed upon between the band and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs (which has a different name that I can't recall).

The more I think about it, the more I think that the audit was going to fail from the start. On a reserve with housing issues, water issues and all kinds of terrible conditions it was probably known that proper records weren't being kept. The government and the Dept. of Indian Affairs was at least complicit here.

[Boblobla]

AHAHAHA

Spence has sent a letter to the Queen and wants the Governor General in attendance as well...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/spence-...ence-1.1106758

[nik-]

This one has some pretty severe delusions of grandeur.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

The more I think about it, the more I think that the audit was going to fail from the start. On a reserve with housing issues, water issues and all kinds of terrible conditions it was probably known that proper records weren't being kept. The government and the Dept. of Indian Affairs was at least complicit here.

So it's the government's fault that Spence didn't keep any receipts?

The woman is a train wreck.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So it's the government's fault that Spence didn't keep any receipts?

The woman is a train wreck.

No, but its also not entirely unforeseen and uncommon. I bring up the government involvement because of the constant notes about paying her lover...that was a decision that the government has input into as well (not the "political" government here, but the department).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Any evidence of the fraud? I can see the accounting issues, but honestly that doesn't mean its fraudulent, that means it wasn't recorded properly and paperwork wasn't kept.

I know that the easy red-flag is that her lover is the manager...but he was agreed upon between the band and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs (which has a different name that I can't recall).

The more I think about it, the more I think that the audit was going to fail from the start. On a reserve with housing issues, water issues and all kinds of terrible conditions it was probably known that proper records weren't being kept. The government and the Dept. of Indian Affairs was at least complicit here.

75% of missing documents and anonymous payments doesn't stike me as accounting ignorance, its becoming more and more clear that the money that was ear marked to things like housing and heath care and education went to anonymous real estate deals and indivual accounting fees.

Like I mentioned before, when the Enron's and other companies of the world were doing wacky accounting the first thing that we spouted was deliberate fraud and criminal activites, and not to pick on you Slava, but in a similar situation your saying poor record keeping and accounting issues.

The bottom line to me is that funding that reservation wasn't the issue, the issue is the money never trickled below the band leader and council to where it was suppossed to go, now whether the money was kicked back to Spence and her boyfriend, or to other council members or to friends and family, we'll never know unless the RCMP goes in and starts investigating which I think has to happen now.

But are we gving her a break because she's an Indian and a her reservation a focal point for the poor and downtrodden set?

You're right the Federal Government is part of the problem here, however if you remember when the Feds released emergency funds to deal with the housing crisis they also sent in a outside administrator to get the books in order, and Spence pretty much threw him out before he could dig into the books, so the government tried to bring accountabilty to the band council, and Spence basically screamed sovereign right and handed the books back over to her boyfriend. What's the government to do what's their role, when can they take over the books? If anything in mind Harper should have been far tougher on Spence and her Cabal, but then the NDP and the Libs and FA would have probably played the racism card "Harper hates Indians and wants to re-invent the Indian Wars"

Its not that your post makes me angry or anything Slava, but we're talking 500 transactions audited out of thousands, so if 400 or so were missing document and money vanishing into unseen hands out of the 500 I'm betting a complete audit would be far more horrifying.

At this point I can't honestly sit back and say accounting mistakes and forgetting to staple documents, that can't be accepted as an excuse unless you and the government are silling to state that due to a lack of education the government will start running the books for the entire first nation and screw self-government.

Spence is the worst kind of parasite. She had to have seen her people freezing and instead of actually taking care of them she instead went to a political solution to cover her own a$$.

It would have played chicken with her on her miracle non weigh loss diet and countering with, I won't meet you until we can do a complete audit of your books.

[polak]

Maybe she should give Obama and the Pope a shout.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So it's the government's fault that Spence didn't keep any receipts?

The woman is a train wreck.

The primary fault is in the system that has persisted in a state that has allowed this for so long.

You can say this person or that person is at fault for their actions, for sure, but if the system wasn't so horribly broken it never would have happened in the first place.

Everyone is at fault and everyone needs to be responsible for fixing it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

75% of missing documents and anonymous payments doesn't stike me as accounting ignorance, its becoming more and more clear that the money that was ear marked to things like housing and heath care and education went to anonymous real estate deals and indivual accounting fees.

Like I mentioned before, when the Enron's and other companies of the world were doing wacky accounting the first thing that we spouted was deliberate fraud and criminal activites, and not to pick on you Slava, but in a similar situation your saying poor record keeping and accounting issues.

The bottom line to me is that funding that reservation wasn't the issue, the issue is the money never trickled below the band leader and council to where it was suppossed to go, now whether the money was kicked back to Spence and her boyfriend, or to other council members or to friends and family, we'll never know unless the RCMP goes in and starts investigating which I think has to happen now.

But are we gving her a break because she's an Indian and a her reservation a focal point for the poor and downtrodden set?

You're right the Federal Government is part of the problem here, however if you remember when the Feds released emergency funds to deal with the housing crisis they also sent in a outside administrator to get the books in order, and Spence pretty much threw him out before he could dig into the books, so the government tried to bring accountabilty to the band council, and Spence basically screamed sovereign right and handed the books back over to her boyfriend. What's the government to do what's their role, when can they take over the books? If anything in mind Harper should have been far tougher on Spence and her Cabal, but then the NDP and the Libs and FA would have probably played the racism card "Harper hates Indians and wants to re-invent the Indian Wars"

Its not that your post makes me angry or anything Slava, but we're talking 500 transactions audited out of thousands, so if 400 or so were missing document and money vanishing into unseen hands out of the 500 I'm betting a complete audit would be far more horrifying.

At this point I can't honestly sit back and say accounting mistakes and forgetting to staple documents, that can't be accepted as an excuse unless you and the government are silling to state that due to a lack of education the government will start running the books for the entire first nation and screw self-government.

Spence is the worst kind of parasite. She had to have seen her people freezing and instead of actually taking care of them she instead went to a political solution to cover her own a$$.

It would have played chicken with her on her miracle non weigh loss diet and countering with, I won't meet you until we can do a complete audit of your books.

Well I just think that expecting her to pass this audit was a joke to begin with. We all know that the entire system on the reserves in general is deplorable; now the auditors roll in and expect anything other than that to surface?

I looked through the audit (and posted that link earlier). Its not impressive, but there are a lot of things that could easily be located there as well. Things like bank statements or transactions with major institutions. In other words, duplicates can easily be produced by the other side in these transactions. That's not the role of the auditor, and I get that, but that also doesn't mean that this is out and out fraud either. Optically, its terrible, agreed.

Thing is that none of us would want a CRA audit in part because you know you're going to get hammered and you would just have to pray that you have everything. This isn't all that different?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Rathji

The primary fault is in the system that has persisted in a state that has allowed this for so long.

You can say this person or that person is at fault for their actions, for sure, but if the system wasn't so horribly broken it never would have happened in the first place.

Everyone is at fault and everyone needs to be responsible for fixing it.

Well then it's a good thing the government has taken steps to make the spending more transparent right? Why then are the chiefs fighting tooth and nail against reforms?

[RedMileDJ]

This just took a weird turn.

http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2013/01/09...r-death-aides/

Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence has signed off on her will and is prepared for death, APTN National News has been told.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

AHAHAHA

Spence has sent a letter to the Queen and wants the Governor General in attendance as well...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/spence-...ence-1.1106758

LOL probably got the idea from CP

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...9&postcount=99

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

This just took a weird turn.

http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2013/01/09...r-death-aides/

Oh the drama..... she's lost 22 lbs.

By my estimation that is about 10% of her original weight.

Over 28 days, not healthy, but she sure isn't on her deathbed.

[Minnie]

Oh, the drama is strong with that one. Give the barking crazy an Oscar already.

She is turning into the Kardashian of the First Nations people. Maybe Kanye could help.