How is everyone dealing with their finances in this economy?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Have you been to the states recently?

I live in the US after moving from Calgary a year and a half ago and make frequent trips back to Calgary. Unequivocally now the cost of living is higher in Canada, especially when you factor in incomes and earning potential in the US. There are positives and negatives of both places and I think Canada has such a complex with the US that makes Canadians blind to anything that might actually be better in the US and also blinds them to things that are objectively awful in Canada.

[Looch City]

Wtf...thought pylon used to be a respectable dude with decent takes. Have you really gone off the deep end that much ? On a scale of 1 to Theo, you're like a solid 13.9!

Another side effect of the disastrous covid vaccines!

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Gas at Costco in Calgary: $1.53/L CAD

Gas at Costco in US cities, in CAD/L:
- Spokane $1.53
- Seattle $1.65
- San Jose $1.82
- Las Vegas $1.56
- Salt Lake $1.37


Median home price in CAD:
- Calgary $557000
- Spokane $678000
- Seattle $1212000
- San Jose $1790000
- Las Vegas $618000
- Salt Lake $784000


Median household income in CAD:
- Calgary $98000
- Spokane $86000
- Seattle $158000
- San Jose $172000
- Las Vegas $81000
- Salt Lake $90000


I guess the lesson here is that even though housing prices are significantly higher and things like healthcare and education take a significantly bigger chunk of the average income, capitalism works because you spend a little bit less for gas (in some places) when measured against your income and you get sweet deals on cell phones.

It’s incredible how stupid people have become.

Also had to laugh at an example of capitalism having a “check” was the brief period where they didn’t have new inventory so dealerships gouged people on used cars because they could.

Good job.

A few years ago Calgary was the one of/ the most 'affordable' big city in North America when you took median income vs housing cost.

It has slightly come back to the pack a bit as housing momentum is building here, but for a lot of people Calgary is actually one of the last places you can get a job that allows you to actually afford the houses.

I fully expect the housing heat wave to accelerate in Calgary over the years to come. Calgary is about to get way more expensive

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nik-

This corny ass dude is still crying about vaccines loooool

- deceptive COVID stats
- vaccines
- immigrants
- Marxism

COVID dummied this dude, literally

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Cost management has a defined upside (I.e. if somehow you found a way to eliminate all of your expenses to $0 you are limited to only being ahead by what you spend.) Focusing instead on making more money has unlimited potential upside. Not saying you should spend like crazy and be grossly negligent in how you spend money, but rather there's a diminishing return to cost management where at a point, effort would be be spent more on upscaling your skills, finding new income sources, etc.

Also for many Canadians it's a revenue problem. Collectively right now objectively things are much less affordable than they used to be.

Yes, everyone would benefit from making more money or getting a higher paying job. I’m not sure why you think that’s a counter point to having a budget and understanding your finances, which is something achievable literally everyone can do in like… an afternoon… and makes a significant impact on your life.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I live in the US after moving from Calgary a year and a half ago and make frequent trips back to Calgary. Unequivocally now the cost of living is higher in Canada, especially when you factor in incomes and earning potential in the US. There are positives and negatives of both places and I think Canada has such a complex with the US that makes Canadians blind to anything that might actually be better in the US and also blinds them to things that are objectively awful in Canada.

“I live in the US” yeah and go ahead and say where in the US.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Cost management has a defined upside (I.e. if somehow you found a way to eliminate all of your expenses to $0 you are limited to only being ahead by what you spend.) Focusing instead on making more money has unlimited potential upside. Not saying you should spend like crazy and be grossly negligent in how you spend money, but rather there's a diminishing return to cost management where at a point, effort would be be spent more on upscaling your skills, finding new income sources, etc.

Also for many Canadians it's a revenue problem. Collectively right now objectively things are much less affordable than they used to be.

We used to call it the old "cost push". If your costs went up, it pushed you to be more proactive in finding ways to make more money.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

- deceptive COVID stats
- vaccines
- immigrants
- Marxism

COVID dummied this dude, literally



Yes, everyone would benefit from making more money or getting a higher paying job. I’m not sure why you think that’s a counter point to having a budget and understanding your finances, which is something achievable literally everyone can do in like… an afternoon… and makes a significant impact on your life.



“I live in the US” yeah and go ahead and say where in the US.

LOL, I didn't say people shouldn't have a budget and do basic things to manage costs.

Also it says literally under my avatar/photo where I live.




https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-...match-the-u-s/

Ontario is tied with Alabama for per capita income and somehow has the most expensive real estate and high cost of living. The only competitive provinces to US states are Alberta & Saskatchewan and that's because they have oil which in every thread on the topic the usual suspects on this forum want to phase out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

LOL, I didn't say people shouldn't have a budget and do basic things to manage costs.

Also it says literally under my avatar/phote where I live.

I didn’t want to assume, but come on man, Toledo might as well be nowhere.

It’s not really representative of the affordability crisis that is also hitting the US and you ought to know that. Go live in the Bay Area and I’ll move to Camrose and we’ll see whose cost of living is higher.

It’s great that you can buy a house for $100k but I know retail workers that pull more than the average income in Toledo. You’re right that there’s a ton of earning potential in the US, but it’s generally in the same places people actually want to live, and home prices and the cost of just about everything else goes up to match.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not really representative of the affordability crisis that is also hitting the US and you ought to know that. Go live in the Bay Area and I’ll move to Camrose and we’ll see whose cost of living is higher.

The affordability crisis isn't same/same. Canada vs. the US. Ontarians & British Columbians pay California/ New York cost of living on Alabama / Idaho incomes. At least the places you look at in the US that have the Highest costs of living also have the highest incomes.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by V

I don’t want to derail the pylon pile-on, but on another note, I find it very interesting how offensive it seems to be to even bring up the idea of budgeting or cost management in this thread. It really shouldn’t be. To repeat Pepsi, if nothing else, budgeting provides incredible peace of mind. And secondly, while I appreciate folks believe they should be entitled to live a certain lifestyle if they work in a certain job, the simple fact is that sometimes you’re not, and cost management can open a lot of opportunities to make free money simply by cutting costs that are lower priority than others. Anyways, sorry if I offended, but I do like to evangelize budgeting, as offensive as it may be.

There's some good posts on budgeting here and I think it's a very worthwhile discussion, I just take exception to the ones that have anecdotes to share and frame the problem like the people struggling would be fine if they just budgeted better.

Think I said it yesterday, but for most people there's just nothing left to budget with after you pay rent

[chemgear]

And Canadian productivity continues to decline, back down to 2017 levels, wild.

LOL - the Bank of Canada website has inflation since then at more then 23%.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-...match-the-u-s/

Ontario is tied with Alabama for per capita income and somehow has the most expensive real estate and high cost of living. The only competitive provinces to US states are Alberta & Saskatchewan and that's because they have oil which in every thread on the topic the usual suspects on this forum want to phase out.

Missed this addition, but it’s worth noting that the author of that chart is also very much for “socialist” policies like subsidized daycare as a means of increasing production, and for low-cost climate policies like the carbon tax.

Not sure if they have those things in Toledo.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-...match-the-u-s/

Ontario is tied with Alabama for per capita income and somehow has the most expensive real estate and high cost of living. The only competitive provinces to US states are Alberta & Saskatchewan and that's because they have oil which in every thread on the topic the usual suspects on this forum want to phase out.

That's GDP per capita, which is a very imperfect measure, not income. For instance, Ireland saw its GDP per capita increase something like 30% in a year simply because Apple moved the domecile of its intellectual property there. Obviously Irish peoples' income didn't increase by 30%, and the US is much the same. There are lots of huge companies headquartered there, but that doesn't necessarily end up in peoples' hands as income. Throw in huge income inequality which skews averages higher, and GDP per capita is a bad measure to judge the average American's income.

If you go by median household income (i.e. what people actually earn), Alberta, BC, Ontario, and Quebec are about average among states.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The affordability crisis isn't same/same. Canada vs. the US. Ontarians & British Columbians pay California/ New York cost of living on Alabama / Idaho incomes. At least the places you look at in the US that have the Highest costs of living also have the highest incomes.

Have you ever been to Alabama or those other poor states? I've been to 45 of the 50 states and it is abundantly clear that the median income in the poorer states is not what it is in Canada. The level of poverty there is astounding.

I mean, just use basic logic. The average home price in Alabama is something like $200K and consumer goods are generally cheaper there than Canada. If the median income is the same as Ontario, then the median Alabama resident must either have a significant amount of wealth saved up or be living in luxury. Yet they aren't, and 1 in 6 families lives in poverty there. They also have a life expectancy that's about a decade shorter than Canada's, which again should give you a clue about the quality of life in the state.

[BigThief]

Dude Bro even named checked Venezuela.

[Zary's-Mustache]

I wish I had the ability to make points like opendoor.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by opendoor

That's GDP per capita, which is a very imperfect measure, not income. For instance, Ireland saw its GDP per capita increase something like 30% in a year simply because Apple moved the domecile of its intellectual property there. Obviously Irish peoples' income didn't increase by 30%, and the US is much the same. There are lots of huge companies headquartered there, but that doesn't necessarily end up in peoples' hands as income. Throw in huge income inequality which skews averages higher, and GDP per capita is a bad measure to judge the average American's income.

If you go by median household income (i.e. what people actually earn), Alberta, BC, Ontario, and Quebec are about average among states.



Have you ever been to Alabama or those other poor states? I've been to 45 of the 50 states and it is abundantly clear that the median income in the poorer states is not what it is in Canada. The level of poverty there is astounding.

I mean, just use basic logic. The average home price in Alabama is something like $200K and consumer goods are generally cheaper there than Canada. If the median income is the same as Ontario, then the median Alabama resident must either have a significant amount of wealth saved up or be living in luxury. Yet they aren't, and 1 in 6 families lives in poverty there. They also have a life expectancy that's about a decade shorter than Canada's, which again should give you a clue about the quality of life in the state.

I haven't been to 45 states, but have been to 27/50.

On a median household income basis - The broad thesis still holds though that Canadian incomes are lower and costs of living are higher.

Ontario would rank low 30s among US States combined on median household income while having a cost of living among the highest of US states. Alberta would rank 15th and be medium tier for cost of living.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

I wish I had the ability to make points like opendoor.

I think we all do

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Curious how much SaskTel charges for cell phone plans compared to Alberta.

I can tell you this because I just moved to and from Saskatchewan. Was there a year. Here’s a couple examples anecdotally off memory:

Cell phone plans, about the same.
Insurance, cheaper by maybe about roughly 10% (on home and auto)
Gas, more expensive (gotta truck it there…)
Food, little bit more expensive but pretty close

All the above is pre PST estimates. Honestly, Calgary is more expensive, but I’m not sure if more rural areas in Alberta would be much more expensive. It’s not that different really.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by shermanator

It's a good feeling when you no longer have the worst post in the thread. Thanks man!

This post has one of the most well rounded group of people who thanked it. Well done hahaha.

[indes]

My wife and I are lucky that we both have 6 figure jobs but really unlucky that my divorce/custody battle pretty much sank me and left me with a mortgage worth of debt.

That being said its getting impossible to climb out of the hole. We have 3 kids and everything just keeps going up and up and up - except wages. At some point the funnel to the top has collapse right?

Not sure how the collapse of the debt based system will look, but I don't think we're too far away now.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I live in the US after moving from Calgary a year and a half ago and make frequent trips back to Calgary. Unequivocally now the cost of living is higher in Canada, especially when you factor in incomes and earning potential in the US.

Unequivocally? There are definitely some areas in the US that are more affordable than some areas in Canada and there are also some areas in Canada that are more affordable than some areas in the US.

In any event the higher inflation rate in the US clearly means that their cost of living has been increasing at a greater rate than ours, which suggests that pylon’s theory was at the very least debatable. The costs of many basic goods and services in a number of the states that I’ve visited recently were either comparable or much higher than they are here, in some of these places I know that did not used to be the case.

There are positives and negatives of both places and I think Canada has such a complex with the US that makes Canadians blind to anything that might actually be better in the US and also blinds them to things that are objectively awful in Canada.

I agree with both places having positives and negatives so I’m not sure why you felt the need to quote my post while launching into your psychological profiling of all Canadians but to be clear I’ve never stated that I believe there are no positives to living in the US nor that there were no downsides to living in Canada. I assure you that despite my ability to think that way I am indeed Canadian.