Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[stazzy33]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Probably a lot of rural support but that's 16% of Alberta's population. I would imagine far less than 50% support in all urban areas. That said 1/10 Canadians supporting joining the US is no joke so if it's that high on a national level then it's probably at least 3+ out of 10 in Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tion-1.7490806

Even I kinda wonder if Alberta becoming the 51st state would benefit my boys as I just don't know what the future holds for this country seeing we will never be able to become self sufficient as long as Quebec's going to keep doing Quebec things. I just think Alberta in particular becoming a state would be beneficial to young people that kind of feel trapped in Canada struggling to find work and the high cost of homes. The USA affords so much more opportunity and choice.

Hopefully your boys aren't school age or you plan to home school them. They might not live long enough to see the opportunity and choice in the US.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Drak

Playing with the idea of destroying our country is treasonous. That’s the definition of it.

It’s also completely absurd on a few different levels.

One, being that pontificating about the state of the country while completely ignoring the state of the country you think might be better to take over is so shortsighted it’s tough to take seriously.

Two, suggesting the process and ramifications of that takeover are worth the potentially marginal benefit to your children is deeply troubling. It’s ideologically the same as people supporting Russia in their war in Ukraine because they’re “saving” Ukraine.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Probably a lot of rural support but that's 16% of Alberta's population. I would imagine far less than 50% support in all urban areas. That said 1/10 Canadians supporting joining the US is no joke so if it's that high on a national level then it's probably at least 3+ out of 10 in Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tion-1.7490806

Even I kinda wonder if Alberta becoming the 51st state would benefit my boys as I just don't know what the future holds for this country seeing we will never be able to become self sufficient as long as Quebec's going to keep doing Quebec things. I just think Alberta in particular becoming a state would be beneficial to young people that kind of feel trapped in Canada struggling to find work and the high cost of homes. The USA affords so much more opportunity and choice.

Self-sufficient in what ways? I’d like to see Canada export more gas overseas, but we’re currently setting records for oil and gas exports. This narrative that the rest of Canada is throttling Alberta’s economy is rooted in emotion and frustration, not in facts.

15 years ago, an 18 year old dude with no training or education could walk into a job in the oilpatch and make $80k. This was not a normal state of affairs - the Alberta energy boom was a global anomaly. There were more blue-collar jobs paying high salaries than literally anywhere else on the planet, and it raised unrealistic expectations.

The boom ended (like they all end), and it’s unlikely to ever come back. Oil and gas exploration in Western Canada has wound down because the conventional deposits were all found. Shale oil has flooded the market. The oilsands megaproducts are largely built out. The Canadian O&G industry today is about pumping the stuff to market - which is not especially labour-intensive. Those sweet, sweet jobs in the patch aren’t coming back at mass scale, even if we build another pipeline to tidewater.

What we’re experiencing isn’t Alberta becoming a ####ty place, it’s Alberta becoming a normal place. For people who deluded themselves that the boom would last forever, it feels ####ty. And the populists who say it’s all someone else’s fault deserve much of the blame for that.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the last few months has been an eye opener for where Canada really stands in the world. The US president has openly mocked us and threatened to annex us while the rest of the world basically sat on their hands and looked the other way. We are a divided nation that's truly on our own. That's not good. However I think what this can be turned into a major positive if Canadians become receptive to working together rather than against each other which is easier said than done given Alberta and Quebec's history of unhappiness. Many of you haven't accepted that the consensus of this forum does not align with a lot of Albertans and that's not going to change as long as a majority of Albertans continue to believe we get the short end of the stick. That's a problem and maybe someone like Nenshi can bridge that gap if he was leading the province but the federal government is going to have to make some decisions for the country that may not align with Quebec and that's another hang up. Are Quebecers going to be able to put some of their issues aside for the greater of the country? I hope so and there's been some positive movement there but this country really isn't large enough to have such division. I'm still a proud Canadian but I'm getting tired of the infighting and division and I'm hoping that Trump has actually given us the kick in the rear we needed to start working together. I think/hope Carney truly is striving to unify this country as that's music to my ears but much easier said than done but I'm pulling for it.

This part is not true, Carney has already been on trips to strengthen bonds and trades with other countries to not rely on the US. Just because they are not shouting it from the rooftops does not mean that it is not happening. Just check out this tweet from Emmanuel Macron

https://twitter.com/user/status/1917162308398198970

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

It's amazing/alarming to me how many people I've come across clutching pearls about how terrible Canada is or will be while sitting in six-figure-plus of home equity and salary, drive new vehicles paid in cash, yet have never lived a truly bad time of their lives.

On the whole, Canadians (including myself) are hilariously spoiled relative to the rest of the world.

Not to mention we also pay some of the lowest taxes in the OECD.

To think Canada is "broken" is hilarious when comparing ourselves to advanced economies in Europe, Asia, and the USA.

Every country has their problems. Some (inflation, housing, immigration, cost of living) are being felt by all advanced economies (weird, eh?) while other problems are more localized.

Canada has its own unique problems, for sure; but damn if people don't love to talk about how broken this country is without offering any options to fix it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The other thing the "51st state" crowd doesn't seem to understand is that we'd in all likelihood be treated like a bastard son of the U.S., similar to how Puerto Rico is treated.

Another thing that the 51st state crowd doesn't realize is that the USA has much more lax standards for immigration than Canada.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the last few months has been an eye opener for where Canada really stands in the world. The US president has openly mocked us and threatened to annex us while the rest of the world basically sat on their hands and looked the other way. We are a divided nation that's truly on our own. That's not good. However I think what this can be turned into a major positive if Canadians become receptive to working together rather than against each other which is easier said than done given Alberta and Quebec's history of unhappiness. Many of you haven't accepted that the consensus of this forum does not align with a lot of Albertans and that's not going to change as long as a majority of Albertans continue to believe we get the short end of the stick. That's a problem and maybe someone like Nenshi can bridge that gap if he was leading the province but the federal government is going to have to make some decisions for the country that may not align with Quebec and that's another hang up. Are Quebecers going to be able to put some of their issues aside for the greater of the country? I hope so and there's been some positive movement there but this country really isn't large enough to have such division. I'm still a proud Canadian but I'm getting tired of the infighting and division and I'm hoping that Trump has actually given us the kick in the rear we needed to start working together. I think/hope Carney truly is striving to unify this country as that's music to my ears but much easier said than done but I'm pulling for it.

Most people know where Canada is in this world. We are a small (population-wise) advanced country. I don't think we have ever claimed to be anything more. We like to hang on to some WWI and WWII nostalgia, as a proud/nation building exercise (4th largest Navy in the world in 1945!); but most sensible Canadians know that we are no great power. We are the Austria to Germany. a great, wealthy country dominated culturally and economically by our much bigger, but similar, neighbor.

In response to the second bolded point. Will Alberta be willing to make compromises? because, according to Smith we aren't.

Pipelines run through other provinces who rightly should probably have a say in that. Repeal the tanker ban? shouldn't BC and the environment issues be considered to?

We #### talk Quebec so god damned much but we are probably worse. Play the victim when in reality we have less to protect.

[undercoverbrother]

These Wexit People are dumb.

Big parts of Alberta are owned by Native Bands.

That land isn't Alberta's to separate.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

These Wexit People are dumb.

Big parts of Alberta are owned by Native Bands.

That land isn't Alberta's to separate.

And neither are our National parks.

[Erick Estrada]

Pretty cool Athletic story about Carney and his hockey days at Harvard.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/626...arvard-goalie/

In retrospect, Chiarelli, former general manager of the Boston Bruins and the Oilers and current vice president of hockey operations for the St. Louis Blues, believes Carney would have been good enough to be a No. 2 goalie elsewhere in the ECAC.

Unfortunately he's an Oilers fan so I'm not sure how that bodes for the country.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the last few months has been an eye opener for where Canada really stands in the world. The US president has openly mocked us and threatened to annex us while the rest of the world basically sat on their hands and looked the other way. We are a divided nation that's truly on our own. That's not good. However I think what this can be turned into a major positive if Canadians become receptive to working together rather than against each other which is easier said than done given Alberta and Quebec's history of unhappiness. Many of you haven't accepted that the consensus of this forum does not align with a lot of Albertans and that's not going to change as long as a majority of Albertans continue to believe we get the short end of the stick. That's a problem and maybe someone like Nenshi can bridge that gap if he was leading the province but the federal government is going to have to make some decisions for the country that may not align with Quebec and that's another hang up. Are Quebecers going to be able to put some of their issues aside for the greater of the country? I hope so and there's been some positive movement there but this country really isn't large enough to have such division. I'm still a proud Canadian but I'm getting tired of the infighting and division and I'm hoping that Trump has actually given us the kick in the rear we needed to start working together. I think/hope Carney truly is striving to unify this country as that's music to my ears but much easier said than done but I'm pulling for it.

The problem in this moment is not Quebec. A lot of Quebec took this election seriously and voted for the Liberals as they felt that was the right thing to do for Canada, Quebec, their families, and themselves. They saw the danger signs that the current Canadian Conservatives (read as Reform party) represent and they rallied to the country.

The problem is Conservative Albertans - the Reform and Wildrose conservatives hiding in the shambling corpses of the Progressive Conservative parties. They do not want to "work together" and they are the ones on facebook and twitter posting separatist nonsense and building sovereignty and prosperity websites. It is not on Carney to get Alberta to play nice. It is on those of us in Alberta to send a message to the UCP that they are on notice and we are ready to evict them if they continue to be as horrible as they have been.

Albertans should be celebrating the Liberal party. We have a Prime Minister who grew up in Edmonton. He values our economy and industry. He also understands something that Alberta is forgetting - We need to start the transition away from Oil before it is too late. All of this talk about "common sense" is BS, I think most people would agree that you do not wait for your main industry to die out before starting to build a new one as the process will take decades.

Unfortunately we did not elect very many Liberals in Alberta so we will not have very many voices within the governing party.... but we have a couple, which is better than none.

As for your other posts about "opportunities for your boys". Those opportunities are not in America. Not unless you are really rich and if you are that rich, you would also be doing just fine in Canada. American is destroying their middle working class and consolidating power in the owning class (Billionaires). The impact of this is long reaching and will not suddenly revert if/when Trump leaves office.

[Muta]

Bernie is awesome.

Spoiler!

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Drak

Playing with the idea of destroying our country is treasonous. That’s the definition of it.

It's also embarrassingly naive. Yeah, I'm sure the administration is talking about absorbing Canada in order to create more "opportunity" for Canadians.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Muta

Bernie is awesome.

Spoiler!

Another disingenuous post from an American politician.

The CPC is not far right in any measure, they ran slight right of center platform with a person who hd slightly more conservative ideas than the Liberals.

The Maxime CPP is the definition of the far right. They were marginal before and marginal after.

Now turning to the Liberals. For all the scare Trump put in us, the government is effectively unchanged in a minority proped up by the NDP. Just 3 of the main characters are gone.

Looks like status quo to me, but to someone who wants badly to see something else than…sure.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Another disingenuous post from an American politician.

The CPC is not far right in any measure, they ran slight right of center platform with a person who hd slightly more conservative ideas than the Liberals.

The Maxime CPP is the definition of the far right. They were marginal before and marginal after.

Now turning to the Liberals. For all the scare Trump put in us, the government is effectively unchanged in a minority proped up by the NDP. Just 3 of the main characters are gone.

Looks like status quo to me, but to someone who wants badly to see something else than…sure.

Why did the leader prevent journalists from questioning him during the campaign, but did allow far right propaganda profiteers to take that time instead? Is this how you'd expect a middle of the road politician to act, or more in line with Trump and the far right?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why did the leader prevent journalists from questioning him during the campaign, but did allow far right propaganda profiteers to take that time instead? Is this how you'd expect a middle of the road politician to act, or more in line with Trump and the far right?

Sorry OldDutch isn't taking questions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why did the leader prevent journalists from questioning him during the campaign, but did allow far right propaganda profiteers to take that time instead? Is this how you'd expect a middle of the road politician to act, or more in line with Trump and the far right?

I think it’s reasonable to say that the stated platform of the conservatives as written down is not right wing as compared to the MAGA movement and the same time the party base and the behaviours around the party toward media and the language used by the party is that of the MAGA movement.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Another disingenuous post from an American politician.

The CPC is not far right in any measure, they ran slight right of center platform with a person who hd slightly more conservative ideas than the Liberals.

The Maxime CPP is the definition of the far right. They were marginal before and marginal after.

Now turning to the Liberals. For all the scare Trump put in us, the government is effectively unchanged in a minority proped up by the NDP. Just 3 of the main characters are gone.

Looks like status quo to me, but to someone who wants badly to see something else than…sure.

Most of the CPC base, and representatives are center right. Still, there are members of the base, and representatives who hold positions that are repugnant to the majority of Canadians including climate change denial, anti abortion, anti lgbtq and residential school denial.

I agree that those people in question are not in any way a majority stake in the CPC. yet, the CPC for unknown reasons to me do not alienate those people from their party.

You see, its kind of like a little flake of #### in cookie dough. it doesn't take much to spoil the whole batch.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

It's amazing/alarming to me how many people I've come across clutching pearls about how terrible Canada is or will be while sitting in six-figure-plus of home equity and salary, drive new vehicles paid in cash, yet have never lived a truly bad time of their lives.

On the whole, Canadians (including myself) are hilariously spoiled relative to the rest of the world.

I have a 29yo in my family (a cousin's husband) who went all in on the CPC nonsense this year because his work environment has indoctrinated him successfully

This guy has a detached home in Airdrie which he and my cousin bought during the "lost liberal decade". They bought it for just before COVID for around $500k and it is probably worth 650-700k now. They have a daughter with government subsidized daycare, his wife is a social worker employed by the government...

It's anecdotal, but a fascinating contrast of personal situation versus political platform. I'm convinced it all comes down to transphobia which is the only thing he seems to align with PP on on actuality. Although I don't get the transphobia either, since it has never affected him in his life. I guess that goes back to the indoctrination though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

The Maxime CPP is the definition of the far right. They were marginal before and marginal after.

The CPP may not have been formally absorbed into the CPC, but their supporters have. They earned less than 1 per cent of the vote share in this election, compared with almost 6 per cent on the last election. They’ve joined the CPC base.