Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

When a company loses this much on a job, they stop paying the bills.

I'd be very surprised and disappointed to find out that Graham stiffed their sub contractors. Their business, as a general contractor, is to take the risk and reap the rewards, and also to end up with the short end of the stick when they under bid.

Graham is a pretty big company around here. I doubt they stopped paying their bills. Their employees were probably pretty unhappy with their profit sharing cheques though.

Sorry, don't mean to dogpile. Just my $0.02

[Table 5]

According to their own site, Graham pulled in 2 Billion dollars in 2011. If they don't pay their subcontractors, it's not because of a dinky pedestrian bridge, it's because they are an ahole company.

[You Need a Thneed]

If other subcontractors didn't get paid, easy lawsuit against Graham to get their money. Graham isn't in bankruptcy.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Sylvanfan was just throwing something insane out there then trying to make us feel bad by saying we think it's funny. Kinda lame.

[GP_Matt]

I have screwed up a bid before and it never even occurred to me to try to stiff the sub-contractor.

It would be different if I spoke to the sub before sending the bid in and asked them to share the risk as a condition of bidding, or told them that the only way I thought we would win is if everyone low balls so they are welcome to submit their bid to me knowing in advance what the plan is.
That would all be part of the contract between the contractor and the sub-contractor though.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

When a company loses this much on a job, they stop paying the bills.

And these bills they stopped paying, what was the basis of the relationship behind them? Perhaps maybe, oh I don't know, a contract? Or are you telling me this was just a handshake deal and now that Graham doesn't feel like paying they can just walk away with no issues and the sub-contractor is just going to sit there and go 'well, that's too bad, guess we'll just go bankrupt then'?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Sylvanfan was just throwing something insane out there then trying to make us feel bad by saying we think it's funny. Kinda lame.

To be fair, that sort of crap happens often when it comes to construction. Companies will withhold payment contesting all sorts of things. If the sub didn't document the costs properly, didn't turnover quality documents, as-built drawings ect ect ect.

Also when people cite Graham making $2B last year, revenue doesn't mean profit, they probably did $2B worth of work, but paid out 95% of that through the course of doing business.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by fotze

Graham should have withheld payment in this case.

Hard to say, I'm just speculating like everyone else. It's not as cut and dry as people think when it comes to construction.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

To be fair, that sort of crap happens often when it comes to construction. Companies will withhold payment contesting all sorts of things. If the sub didn't document the costs properly, didn't turnover quality documents, as-built drawings ect ect ect.

There's a difference between a standard 10% holdback, and blatantly holding back money for completed work.

If As builts are part of the contract, and they aren't done, why should they be paid for them? If costs for extras aren't documented, why would a contractor pay a sub for them?

If other subcontractors hadn't been paid up to date, we would have all been hearing about it already for a project like this. Everything else is in the public. The instant one such complaint would get out to the media, the public negativity of the project would shift onto Graham.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

There's a difference between a standard 10% holdback, and blatantly holding back money for completed work.

If As builts are part of the contract, and they aren't done, why should they be paid for them? If costs for extras aren't documented, why would a contractor pay a sub for them?

If other subcontractors hadn't been paid up to date, we would have all been hearing about it already for a project like this. Everything else is in the public. The instant one such complaint would get out to the media, the public negativity of the project would shift onto Graham.

That's why I said on the last page, if this was true, the sub should have stopped work when the first invoice wasn't paid. You're right, typically the hold back is to guarantee that the contractor will turnover all the final documentation.

[SebC]

Happy Birthday Peace Bridge!

[TorqueDog]

This guy's photos make it look pretty awesome.

I still think Peace Bridge is a stupid name, TBH.

[Sylvanfan]

I will admit a lot of subs tend to get duped by outfits like Graham or any large GC. Especially smaller ones who can be intimidated by big outfits. It's not out of the question that they did not do their due dillegence before committing to this

No point arguing it anymore though, Spanish labour is awesome!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

This guy's photos make it look pretty awesome.

I still think Peace Bridge is a stupid name, TBH.

They are pretty artsy so that's nice I guess but if I wanted a picture that featured the actual Peace Bridge I wouldn't choose any of those. If I wanted just a cool photo, those would be neat.

Look through the Photography thread to see some really amazing and dare I say... awe-inspiring shots of the bridge.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

They are pretty artsy so that's nice I guess but if I wanted a picture that featured the actual Peace Bridge I wouldn't choose any of those. If I wanted just a cool photo, those would be neat.

Look through the Photography thread to see some really amazing and dare I say... awe-inspiring shots of the bridge.

Yeah, those kind of photos never do it for me. I know it's all the rage now a days, but I just don't get it. Before the peace bridge was built, we had some really cool renderings of it, then the real thing is completed, which opens the door for actual phots. Then this guy (and many others) comes along, photograghs it, then edits the photos to look like............renderings. I just don't get the attraction of that style.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah, those kind of photos never do it for me. I know it's all the rage now a days, but I just don't get it. Before the peace bridge was built, we had some really cool renderings of it, then the real thing is completed, which opens the door for actual phots. Then this guy (and many others) comes along, photograghs it, then edits the photos to look like............renderings. I just don't get the attraction of that style.

It's pretty brutal. The amount of cooking that's in those photos are just a total turn off. I looked through some of his other things and.. yuck.

Here is one of the Peace Bridge by CP's AFireInside

Peace Bridge, Calgary AB by Wes138, on Flickr

It's simple, clean and a beautiful photo.

[jayswin]

Yep, always like AFI's shots, Regulator75 took some absolutely stunning shots of it as well. Give me real photgraghy everytime.

[TorqueDog]

Okay, that's a pretty awesome shot by AFI.

[RougeUnderoos]

Uh oh. People griping about other leaky Calatrava designs!

http://gawker.com/5995143/famous-arc...for-leaky-roof

The owner of the winery is so fed up with trying to patch the roof, it wants money from the original architect to pay for hiring someone to build a new roof. This demand comes after another one of Calatrava's buildings, the Palau de Les Art in Valencia, has had its ceramic outer skin begin to slowly wrinkle and "its tiles have started to shake loose." The city also wants some of its money back.

I was on the Peace Bridge back in March and cripes, it was leaking like a sieve. Well, not leaking, I guess, since snow WAS COMING RIGHT IN!

[nik-]

There's a difference between "leaking" and "dripping"