Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Of course Canada is systemically racist, in truth all countries are to some degree or other but doesn't make it ok here, we cant say 'well we're not as bad as the US so I guess everything's fine' our challenge as Canadians, especially white Canadians, is to push back at racism where and when we find it.

Just a small point Girly, a country can be wholly welcoming to immigrants and still be systemically racist to its native community and that makes the country, Canada, systemically racist.

Hmmm, I find that too general AFC. MarchHare makes a good point above of the police and carding. The police processes are a major problem and we have address those separately. Again, I find the police more classists than racists.

On the native issue, and you have far more experience in this as I've only dealt with the native community in city programs and associations but not on the reverses themselves, are the current programs not a viable solution?

Here is a list of Aboriginal Programs in Calgary

https://www.calgary.ca/csps/cns/docu...f?noredirect=1

I know the people who get grants and funding are working really hard but systematically, is this working? Does the strategy need to be rethought? Is it window dressing?


Edit: saw Scroopy Noopers' post, same question.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

MarchHare makes a good point above of the police and carding.

Stop googling!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hmmm, I find that too general AFC. MarchHare makes a good point above of the police and carding. The police processes are a major problem and we have address those separately. Again, I find the police more classists than racists.

On the native issue, and you have far more experience in this as I've only dealt with the native community in city programs and associations but not on the reverses themselves, are the current programs not a viable solution?

Here is a list of Aboriginal Programs in Calgary

https://www.calgary.ca/csps/cns/docu...f?noredirect=1

I know the people who get grants and funding are working really hard but systematically, is this working? Does the strategy need to be rethought? Is it window dressing?


Edit: saw Scroopy Noopers' post, same question.

Here's the thing, you cant look at Calgary and say well things are fine here therefore life as a native in the rest of Canada must be fine, I say this without even knowing if the programs in Calgary are any good, but even if they were all gold standard it doesn't mean life in Prince Albert or Dawson's Creek is ok.

Second point 'general' that's pretty much what 'systemic' means, generally life as a native is crap, generally you wont get hired, generally you will live a shorter life, generally you will be massively poorer, generally you will have poorer sanitation, generally you will not have decent water, generally you will live as a second class human being in Canada

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Edit: saw Scroopy Noopers' post, same question.

What question? You said Canada was not systemically racist. It flat out is. Or at the very least, was until recently. Still showing it’s effects throughout the police and the public today.

I don’t see why that isn’t okay to acknowledge. We should be acknowledging that and moving forward. No, I don’t know the answers on how to resolve the issue entirely. But, it exists. And was systemically created. There is no debating that.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Stop googling!

Ya. God forbid we cite sources based on facts and not others opinion. And shame on anyone in this thread for bringing that to light.

We've lit our torches have have our pitchforks and nothing is going to stop us - much less facts.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Here's the thing, you cant look at Calgary and say well things are fine here therefore life as a native in the rest of Canada must be fine, I say this without even knowing if the programs in Calgary are any good, but even if they were all gold standard it doesn't mean life in Prince Albert or Dawson's Creek is ok.

Second point 'general' that's pretty much what 'systemic' means, generally life as a native is crap, generally you wont get hired, generally you will live a shorter life, generally you will be massively poorer, generally you will have poorer sanitation, generally you will not have decent water, generally you will live as a second class human being in Canada

You are right, I am clouded by my city point of view.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hmmm, I find that too general AFC. MarchHare makes a good point above of the police and carding. The police processes are a major problem and we have address those separately. Again, I find the police more classists than racists.

On the native issue, and you have far more experience in this as I've only dealt with the native community in city programs and associations but not on the reverses themselves, are the current programs not a viable solution?

Here is a list of Aboriginal Programs in Calgary

https://www.calgary.ca/csps/cns/docu...f?noredirect=1

I know the people who get grants and funding are working really hard but systematically, is this working? Does the strategy need to be rethought? Is it window dressing?


Edit: saw Scroopy Noopers' post, same question.

There were 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation report (summarized here - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...tion-1.3362258).

Things like - reducing number of Indigenous children in care, eliminating educational and employment gaps, funding of schools on and off reserves, protecting their languages, implement health care rights, etc

10 are complete, 21 are in progress, 39 have proposals and 24 haven't started.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/long...yond-94?&cta=1

We've got a very long way to go.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Support for BLM has skyrocketed since this incident.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1270694067677081600

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You are right, I am clouded by my city point of view.

And we are all clouded by our English Canadian point of view, Quebec is 1/5 of Canada, how's life as native or brown there? not so effing hot by all accounts!!

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Ya. God forbid we cite sources based on facts and not others opinion. And shame on anyone in this thread for bringing that to light.

We've lit our torches have have our pitchforks and nothing is going to stop us - much less facts.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

I posted a link to wikipedia because the article is written in an accessible and easily-understood style for a casual reader. If you prefer scholarly articles which discuss both the ineffectiveness and the racial bias of the practice of carding in a formal academic manner, there are plenty of those available too.

Like this one, written by Dr. Anthony Doob and Dr. Rosemary Gartner, both faculty members from the University of Toronto's criminology department: https://www.tpsb.ca/items-of-interes...g-police-stops

Or this one, published in the Canadian Journal of Family and Youth: https://journals.library.ualberta.ca...ew/24301/18000

Or this one, written by David Tanovich, professor of Law from the University of Windsor and Don Stuart, professor of Law from Queen's University: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2741280

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Ya. God forbid we cite sources based on facts and not others opinion. And shame on anyone in this thread for bringing that to light.

We've lit our torches have have our pitchforks and nothing is going to stop us - much less facts.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Did you ever actually want to present any of the facts you keep talking about or are you just going to get by pretending the truth martyr thing is effective?

Yeah yeah, we get it, you're fighting information and fighting for facts by... presenting none and pretending everyone is against you and your facts. Cool. Entertainment level 100. Next.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Ya. God forbid we cite sources based on facts and not others opinion. And shame on anyone in this thread for bringing that to light.

We've lit our torches have have our pitchforks and nothing is going to stop us - much less facts.

I mean, that's how you cite your sources...by googling.

He presented the article. Neufeld supports carding. That's a fact.

I won't tell you how I found this information, but here's an independent review of street checks by the Honourable Michael H. Tulloch which supports they are ineffective and disproportionately targeting of minorities:

https://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...eview2018.html

The disproportionate collection of identifying information from Indigenous, Black and other racialized communities led to a loud outcry from a wide cross-section of people and groups throughout the province of Ontario, who called for a ban on the practice of carding.

Some people argue that the disproportionate collection of street check data indicates a discriminatory practice. Others argue that the numbers reflect other factors, such as the nature or location of calls for service and the composition of the people on the street available to be questioned.

This report will not answer the question of why people were stopped disproportionately, because the answer to that question has not been conclusively determined. This report will study in depth the Government of Ontario’s recent efforts to regulate street checks and address ways to ensure that street checks are conducted fairly and properly.
...
In contemplating whether random street checks work, I consider Canadian and international experiences and research, as well as my own observations from the many consultations conducted over the course of this Review. I conclude that random street checks, which take considerable time and effort for a police service to conduct, have little to no verifiable benefits relating to the level of crime or even arrests. In fact, even before the Regulation, many police services had already discontinued the practice because of its lack of effectiveness.

[FlamesAddiction]

Racist Karen makes an appearance:

NSFW due to language

NSFW!

(Sorry about the terrible music at the beginning)

[blender]

Some very good discussion here lately.

One thing I believe is necessary if there is any chance of changing our society for the better is a very simple acknowledgement of the FACT that our whole culture is fundamentally flawed. Modern western post-colonialist capitalist societies are racist, sexist, inequitable, destructive and terrorizing. We have a very complex and deeply rooted narrative that we use to provide a context which seems fairly palatable if you don't dig too deep, but really we are all participating (more or less) in an evil and destructive enterprise.

Now, despite this uncomfortable truth, it's not like we are all bad people, and it's not to say that there aren't countless good and beautiful things happening every day. There is also progress towards a better world. But without the acceptance of who and what we are, how can we expect there to be any real change?

[icecube]

Originally Posted by blender

Some very good discussion here lately.

One thing I believe is necessary if there is any chance of changing our society for the better is a very simple acknowledgement of the FACT that our whole culture is fundamentally flawed. Modern western post-colonialist capitalist societies are racist, sexist, inequitable, destructive and terrorizing. We have a very complex and deeply rooted narrative that we use to provide a context which seems fairly palatable if you don't dig too deep, but really we are all participating (more or less) in an evil and destructive enterprise.

Now, despite this uncomfortable truth, it's not like we are all bad people, and it's not to say that there aren't countless good and beautiful things happening every day. There is also progress towards a better world. But without the acceptance of who and what we are, how can we expect there to be any real change?

Cue residential school apologist extraordinaire Cliff Fletcher to come in and say, "but look at how far we've come, don't judge racists by the racist times they were living in blah blah give us a hero cookie"

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blender

Some very good discussion here lately.

One thing I believe is necessary if there is any chance of changing our society for the better is a very simple acknowledgement of the FACT that our whole culture is fundamentally flawed. Modern western post-colonialist capitalist societies are racist, sexist, inequitable, destructive and terrorizing. We have a very complex and deeply rooted narrative that we use to provide a context which seems fairly palatable if you don't dig too deep, but really we are all participating (more or less) in an evil and destructive enterprise.

Now, despite this uncomfortable truth, it's not like we are all bad people, and it's not to say that there aren't countless good and beautiful things happening every day. There is also progress towards a better world. But without the acceptance of who and what we are, how can we expect there to be any real change?

To be honest here I think we can cut ourselves some moral, if not practical slack, societies reflect humanity, we are intrinsically xenophobic in many ways, all societies are racist, some more some less, our challenge is not to create a perfect non racist society (because it is impossible) but to constantly work on what we are, the world we live in, the truth is in many ways the UK and US has opened up a bit of a pandora's box of ignorance with Trump and Brexit, that we closed back in the 80's and 90's, turns out a fair chunk of our white society didn't actually like that they couldn't use racists abuse anymore and were just itching to bring that filth back, for the last 20 years they knew they would be fired and shunned for it, now unfortunately they feel a bit free'er to let their ignorance out, we need to put that ignorance back in its box, that's the struggle now.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

To be honest here I think we can cut ourselves some moral, if not practical slack, societies reflect humanity, we are intrinsically xenophobic in many ways, all societies are racist, some more some less, our challenge is not to create a perfect non racist society (because it is impossible) but to constantly work on what we are, the world we live in, the truth is in many ways the UK and US has opened up a bit of a pandora's box of ignorance with Trump and Brexit, that we closed back in the 80's and 90's, turns out a fair chunk of our white society didn't actually like that they couldn't use racists abuse anymore and were just itching to bring that filth back, for the last 20 years they knew they would be fired and shunned for it, now unfortunately they feel a bit free'er to let their ignorance out, we need to put that ignorance back in its box, that's the struggle now.

Do you think that white people who are trying their best are tired of extremism and identity politics on the other side? There are biases and racists of course, but it's not 100% and I see many people, of all colors, getting eaten up by the language police and being classified into that fair chunk of people who want white supremacy back, unfairly.



I just come at the point of view that Canadians are trying. The 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation report mentioned earlier, that's an attempted at something, something most countries wouldn't do. I value the effort and recognition but maybe again, I'm falling for window dressing. Again, I'm more on the immigration side of policy.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well, this thread turned religious in a hurry...

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Racist Karen makes an appearance:

NSFW due to language

NSFW!

(Sorry about the terrible music at the beginning)

I’d love to be nearby when one of those idiots goes on a racist tirade.

She thinks everyone sees the world as she does. She basically said that.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, this thread turned religious in a hurry...

Well this might really chap your ass.. The New York Times nonfiction bestseller list..





Nobody would throw a bigger tantrum than you when systemic racism (or as you used to call it, the "Ta Nehisi Coates definition of racism" was discussed on CP.