[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by funnymunk

Ouch

I'm sorry. It's not you, is it? I didn't mean to word it as harshly as I said and the website isn't bad by any stretch, but there are just certain facets of it -- small minutiae -- that separate it negatively from other teams' sites.

When the new website was debuted and they started putting pictures of the players above their headshots, they were all updated for the Flames -- like on Michael Stone's page, for instance (https://www.nhl.com/player/michael-s...eason=20172018) -- but since then, the only guy whose page has been updated seems to be Nick Shore. Mark Jankowski doesn't have one, Garnet Hathaway doesn't, etc. And the roster page isn't right.

Again, I meant nothing personal to the webmaster as I'm sure it's a busy job but there's just a couple little touches that separate the overall website quality from that of other teams.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Muta

Still can't believe we got Neal, Hanafin and Lindholm this summer.

Yeah it’s exciting. The team was in the dumps in April but the organization didn’t take things sitting down as it’s been very good offseason even without a 1st round pick.

[funnymunk]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I'm sorry. It's not you, is it? I didn't mean to word it as harshly as I said and the website isn't bad by any stretch, but there are just certain facets of it -- small minutiae -- that separate it negatively from other teams' sites.

When the new website was debuted and they started putting pictures of the players above their headshots, they were all updated for the Flames -- like on Michael Stone's page, for instance (https://www.nhl.com/player/michael-s...eason=20172018) -- but since then, the only guy whose page has been updated seems to be Nick Shore. Mark Jankowski doesn't have one, Garnet Hathaway doesn't, etc. And the roster page isn't right.

Again, I meant nothing personal to the webmaster as I'm sure it's a busy job but there's just a couple little touches that separate the overall website quality from that of other teams.

It's not, it's just how I wanted to introduce myself on the forums.

Now I'm the bad guy

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by funnymunk

It's not, it's just how I wanted to introduce myself on the forums.

Now I'm the bad guy

That was actually good, whatcha did. I'll be more careful with how I word things about people from now on. Thanks for saying that

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I'm sorry. It's not you, is it? I didn't mean to word it as harshly as I said and the website isn't bad by any stretch, but there are just certain facets of it -- small minutiae -- that separate it negatively from other teams' sites.

When the new website was debuted and they started putting pictures of the players above their headshots, they were all updated for the Flames -- like on Michael Stone's page, for instance (https://www.nhl.com/player/michael-s...eason=20172018) -- but since then, the only guy whose page has been updated seems to be Nick Shore. Mark Jankowski doesn't have one, Garnet Hathaway doesn't, etc. And the roster page isn't right.

Again, I meant nothing personal to the webmaster as I'm sure it's a busy job but there's just a couple little touches that separate the overall website quality from that of other teams.

Its more of a NHL thing over the Flames web branding. They're stuck with that crappy template the NHL forced every team to follow a few years ago.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah it’s exciting. The team was in the dumps in April but the organization didn’t take things sitting down as it’s been very good offseason even without a 1st round pick.

Its refreshing.

Finally seeing the team unhappy with the results and making big changes. I was really worried BT would have stayed the course, fired GG but made minor tweaks to the roster.

September can't come soon enough.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Its more of a NHL thing over the Flames web branding. They're stuck with that crappy template the NHL forced every team to follow a few years ago.

I know that. I actually don't mind the template that much it's just that the Flames' site rarely updates it in the ways that other teams do. It's not a huge deal though.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I know that. I actually don't mind the template that much it's just that the Flames' site rarely updates it in the ways that other teams do. It's not a huge deal though.

Yeah, the way to handle this is to recognize that flames.nhl.com is NOT a news site. There will never be any useful information posted on the site, especially pertaining to new developments in terms of roster changes, injuries, etc. What the website is good for is team sanctioned behind-the-scenes videos, profiles, and the community involvement fluff pieces that most of us also enjoy.

[TheScorpion]

I suppose. I just don't know why it has to be like that.

[Enoch Root]

It shouldn't be too difficult to have up-to-date rosters and basic team information

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by Muta

Still can't believe we got Neal, Hanafin and Lindholm this summer.

I was thinking the same thing the other day. It's almost as if so many big changes happened that they havent sunk in yet. This is going to be an exceptionally fun team to watch in October.

[Stay Golden]

Has Hanifin been signed to a contract yet??

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Has Hanifin been signed to a contract yet??

Nope.

[Mr.Coffee]

We should know this about Treliving. Like honestly this isn’t going to be popular and I like how he handles his negotiations but from what I can tell he likely lowballs the #### out of people. So Hanifin gets traded here and he’s yes probably excited about playing for the Flames and then he gets a contract offer and is like wtf???

Gaudreau too. Monahan to an extent. That Hamilton deal was outrageous. Any big name player. I’m sorry but we have Gaudreau at an Aav or under $7MM and he’s probably the best LW in the world. If I was Gaudreau and putting up 80 points (and let’s be honest, he has the ability to put up 80), you’re damn right I’m not going to be happy with 6.75AAV. When Gaudreau leaves after this contract is done it’s going to be because he felt taken advantage of because we had the leverage because he was RFA.

Hanifin owes Calgary nothing. He got traded here. And based on Trelivings history and negotiation practice you can see why he isn’t signed yet. Because he’s being lowballed compared to the market most likely. Will he sign? Yes. Because he has no other option and you’d be an idiot not to sign and sit out.

Here comes the posts about “well why did Gaudreau sign long term then?” Because when somebody offers you +30MM of risk free money you take it. But that doesn’t mean you don’t think you’re worth $50MM over 6 yrs and I bet you he is feeling that way right or wrong. He’s probably right, he’s worth >$50MM on a 6 year term today (and even when he was signed).

This is the elephant in the room I notice almost nobody talking about because they’re hockey players making millions. Well you know what? This is business and this is their market value. The elephant in the room is that Treliving lowballs a bit and while it’s great for now because we have absolutely fantastic current value contracts, this could be a recipe for disaster long term and very likely works against the Flames when it comes to fostering resentment with players that feel they’re paid far below market value but due to artificial restrictions are forced to sign at significant market discounts.

Don’t kid yourself if you don’t think the Flames will create a reputation here for being unfair to player contracts / taking advantage of players.

[SeanCharles]

^I don't buy it.

It's a business negotiation and when you have the upper hand you utilize it. The players do so in many ways with arbitration and when they hit free agency.

Players 2nd contracts have become crazy but a lot of that is because the league has become a young mans game so I can understand it but you are blowing things a little out of proportion.

Treliving is just working to manage the cap because he knows it's hard to win when too much of the pie is taken up by so few. Instead he has built a team where the wealth is spread out and we now have some depth.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund and Neal are all signed long term and Tkachuk is expected to sign for a number of years also.

That means we have our top 6 locked up for at least 4 years and if Bennett and Jankowski break out we can allocate some of Frolik and Stones cap hits to them and Tkachuk.

We have 3 young d prospects that can hopefully step in and provide some cheap production within the next couple years so outside of solving the long term goaltender situation the team is pretty well set up to compete over the next handful of years with solid depth and no outrageous contracts.

That's smart cap management and is the only type of reputation Treliving will/should receive.

[BloodFetish]

^^ I now know who I want for my projectionist if I ever buy a movie theatre.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

We should know this about Treliving. Like honestly this isn’t going to be popular and I like how he handles his negotiations but from what I can tell he likely lowballs the #### out of people. So Hanifin gets traded here and he’s yes probably excited about playing for the Flames and then he gets a contract offer and is like wtf???

Gaudreau too. Monahan to an extent. That Hamilton deal was outrageous. Any big name player. I’m sorry but we have Gaudreau at an Aav or under $7MM and he’s probably the best LW in the world. If I was Gaudreau and putting up 80 points (and let’s be honest, he has the ability to put up 80), you’re damn right I’m not going to be happy with 6.75AAV. When Gaudreau leaves after this contract is done it’s going to be because he felt taken advantage of because we had the leverage because he was RFA.

Hanifin owes Calgary nothing. He got traded here. And based on Trelivings history and negotiation practice you can see why he isn’t signed yet. Because he’s being lowballed compared to the market most likely. Will he sign? Yes. Because he has no other option and you’d be an idiot not to sign and sit out.

Here comes the posts about “well why did Gaudreau sign long term then?” Because when somebody offers you +30MM of risk free money you take it. But that doesn’t mean you don’t think you’re worth $50MM over 6 yrs and I bet you he is feeling that way right or wrong. He’s probably right, he’s worth >$50MM on a 6 year term today (and even when he was signed).

This is the elephant in the room I notice almost nobody talking about because they’re hockey players making millions. Well you know what? This is business and this is their market value. The elephant in the room is that Treliving lowballs a bit and while it’s great for now because we have absolutely fantastic current value contracts, this could be a recipe for disaster long term and very likely works against the Flames when it comes to fostering resentment with players that feel they’re paid far below market value but due to artificial restrictions are forced to sign at significant market discounts.

Don’t kid yourself if you don’t think the Flames will create a reputation here for being unfair to player contracts / taking advantage of players.

I think you have to be hardline in contract negotiations, but I hope it's done with class and without malice.

Lou Lamourello had this in Jersey for two decades and for the most part the players accepted it and it worked.

If it gets personal, then you have an issue ... and from what I've read, heard and seen that's not the case with Treliving.

So no ... not joining you on this one.

And think of the opposite history they have up in Edmonton (and other markets) ... inferiority complex fuels over pays in order to make players love them and want to stay.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

We should know this about Treliving. Like honestly this isn’t going to be popular and I like how he handles his negotiations but from what I can tell he likely lowballs the #### out of people. So Hanifin gets traded here and he’s yes probably excited about playing for the Flames and then he gets a contract offer and is like wtf???

Gaudreau too. Monahan to an extent. That Hamilton deal was outrageous. Any big name player. I’m sorry but we have Gaudreau at an Aav or under $7MM and he’s probably the best LW in the world. If I was Gaudreau and putting up 80 points (and let’s be honest, he has the ability to put up 80), you’re damn right I’m not going to be happy with 6.75AAV. When Gaudreau leaves after this contract is done it’s going to be because he felt taken advantage of because we had the leverage because he was RFA.

Hanifin owes Calgary nothing. He got traded here. And based on Trelivings history and negotiation practice you can see why he isn’t signed yet. Because he’s being lowballed compared to the market most likely. Will he sign? Yes. Because he has no other option and you’d be an idiot not to sign and sit out.

Here comes the posts about “well why did Gaudreau sign long term then?” Because when somebody offers you +30MM of risk free money you take it. But that doesn’t mean you don’t think you’re worth $50MM over 6 yrs and I bet you he is feeling that way right or wrong. He’s probably right, he’s worth >$50MM on a 6 year term today (and even when he was signed).

This is the elephant in the room I notice almost nobody talking about because they’re hockey players making millions. Well you know what? This is business and this is their market value. The elephant in the room is that Treliving lowballs a bit and while it’s great for now because we have absolutely fantastic current value contracts, this could be a recipe for disaster long term and very likely works against the Flames when it comes to fostering resentment with players that feel they’re paid far below market value but due to artificial restrictions are forced to sign at significant market discounts.

Don’t kid yourself if you don’t think the Flames will create a reputation here for being unfair to player contracts / taking advantage of players.

After Gio signed the Fan 960 had his agent on and he said Tre was a fair negotiator. He also noted that he like how Tre and Burke always stayed consistent in negotiations.

[Mr.Coffee]

All fair points raised above but it doesn’t mean Gaudreau has to like it and I still think it lowers his likelihood to re-sign.

If you feel your market worth is X and your making X-25% it is not endearing even though you all raised just points that I would even agree with. Treliving lowballs and uses his negotiating leverage properly and that’s great (honestly), but I could see where it could cause some insult despite the highest class in delivery.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

All fair points raised above but it doesn’t mean Gaudreau has to like it and I still think it lowers his likelihood to re-sign.

If you feel your market worth is X and your making X-25% it is not endearing even though you all raised just points that I would even agree with. Treliving lowballs and uses his negotiating leverage properly and that’s great (honestly), but I could see where it could cause some insult despite the highest class in delivery.

Mackinnon can’t wait to get out of Colorado then.

Hall hates his contract.

I can’t believe Toews and Kane re-signed with a Chicago after making only 6.3M per on their 2nd contracts.

The market changes, and the Draisaitl/McDavid deals were deals that re-shaped the market to a degree.

By your logic, Tarasenko is fuming in St Louis and can’t wait to get out and Sidney Crosby must be furious in Pittsburgh.