[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[powderjunkie]

Another way an ‘ultimatum’ could have been phrased is:

“If you won’t get to 10.5 we’re out. If you will, we’ll tell you our final decision by __ o’clock”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

Some of those criticizing the discussion should give JACK FM a call, they're currently calling businesses in Columbus informally polling whether anyone cares about hockey let alone knows or is excited about JG coming to town. That's way more "cringe" than hockey fans discussing a hockey player's relocation on a hockey forum.

Haha lighten up and have some fun, it's Friday.

[GullFoss]

You can believe Johnny played the flames. Even though he clearly didn't because the lack of offers from Philly and spurning the Devil's suggests there was no tampering going on.

Johnny and his family probably agonized over the decision. Being in Calgary was best of Johnny. His teammates and friends are here. He liked the team and organization. It was the best money. And it was his best chance to win. He probably REALLY wanted to stay here. And he probably thought his wife would agree to stay if the money was high enough.

And when the final offer came and Gross said, "look, this is a great over, if you leave, you're leaving $10m on the table." And Johnny discussed it with his partner and they decided to leave it on the table.

I feel bad for Johnny and the flames and his wife. Sometimes, there are no winners. It just wasn't meant to me.

Time to accept the outcome and move on. No ill will from me. He was a great player on a great contract who played here for eight years. If he ended up having a baby two years ago or two years from now instead of this year, he'd probably still be a flame.

That's just life sometimes.

[Flame On]

I'm passed anger and blame and have moved to disappointment entirely, and maybe a little confusion still.
Basically, if you look at what Johnny wanted, what he got and how he got there it doesn't make sense.

I understand fully holding out to leverage the highest price, and how that even meant hosing the team that developed him and the org he started with, by not doing it in time so they could benefit if he wasn't staying.

But then he takes a deal which was less, meaning there was no point in holding out past the deadline because it wasn't about money, or the said leverage he had held off his decision for.
So the only thing he did accomplish, was limiting the Flames options. Disappointing.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Murph

I blame the 20-something women of Calgary for this entire schmozzle.

Lol I told the dads of the board to get their daughters on the case a few years ago and that it would be crucial to the future of Johnny in Calgary. But did anybody listen?!

Let him slip to another house in a distant kingdom.

[GullFoss]

This is the fault of Calgary bitties for not locking Johnny down. That's who I blame lol

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Haha lighten up and have some fun, it's Friday.

I have no problem with it; was pointing out to the finger-waggers that this thread isn't exactly happening in a bubble. Note the scare quotes around cringe.

[Mr.Coffee]

To me it’s so simple.

Wife’s family lives near Columbus. Wife having baby. Wife wants support for baby.

Gaudreau should have been more upfront / honest at an earlier time. He was kind of dishonest.

The end, move on. Give #13 to somebody else.

What’s most important is figuring out a coherent strategy for the team now, that YOU as management control, not players.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I'm passed anger and blame and have moved to disappointment entirely, and maybe a little confusion still.
Basically, if you look at what Johnny wanted, what he got and how he got there it doesn't make sense.

I understand fully holding out to leverage the highest price, and how that even meant hosing the team that developed him and the org he started with, by not doing it in time so they could benefit if he wasn't staying.

But then he takes a deal which was less, meaning there was no point in holding out past the deadline because it wasn't about money, or the said leverage he had held off his decision for.
So the only thing he did accomplish, was limiting the Flames options. Disappointing.

Eye of the beholder. The Flames were the master of their own demise in this situation for not taking care of such a critical contract a year ago, and not pushing to get a final answer earlier than the final minutes.

It is just reckless and idiotic for your GM to handle such an asset so poorly and really speaks volumes that he is completely unfit to continue to manage the team. The player could have done many things differently leading up to this, but it all could have been mitigated, at least somewhat had the team not acted like a bush league minor league team.

A simple call: "He Johnny, if we don't hear back from you by the draft we are assuming you are out." "The door might still be open but we are going to explore other options and can't guarantee anything afterwards."

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

A simple call: "He Johnny, if we don't hear back from you by the draft we are assuming you are out." "The door might still be open but we are going to explore other options and can't guarantee anything afterwards."

And then they trade him for a 3rd and it comes out that he was still considering signing with the Flames and the same people point to that as evidence that Treliving is completely unfit to manage a team.

This stuff means nothing. If you think you can sign the player, you focus on trying to sign the player. Even the owner believed it until they were told otherwise at the last moment.

[Inferno099]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Flames need to be better. We do seem to hang on to some players too long and then choose not to cash in because we need them on the ice for another run. Good teams know when to trade before the past due date and gain some assets with potential.

In this case 2 years ago JG said he could see himself playing his entire career here. Obviously that changed - the team moves forward but it is crappy the Flames did not see this before.

Myself I have been a big supporter of #13 since the date he was drafted so this week is not great. I was naïve in thinking he would be here actually playing for the Flames for 13 or more years. (I do not use the drafted date as he seems to bring up in interviews)


CSEC definitely holds on to the top players way too long when the team is not a contender.

I definitely agree though with Iginla he should have been traded a year or more earlier.

Not a popular take by many on CP but after the Norris I would have traded Giordano. Flames were not contenders and it did not make sense to keep him when there likely was a market then.

Now with Matthew Tkachuk - after what just occurred with JG - before the season starts the Flames need to either sign him long term (if they think he will eventually adapt to playoff hockey and perform well)....
or complete the QO or arbitration contract if that occurs and trade him to the highest bidder.

No way can they have head in the sand again. Look how quick the Columbus offer was completed for John G. If Matthew Tkachuk and Treliving can't come to an agreement to extend it makes no sense at all to keep him in Calgary

Key thing and I get the argument players should be able to select where they want to play based on the agreements that are in place for the 32 teams to operate. Johnny did nothing wrong that way in itself and Flames management should have had a deadline well ahead...
and possibly go forward if they may now decide to have a deadline before the season starts with any players they want to sign long term.

We will wait and see.

NHL is a business and the players are the product....
so yes there is the treatment of players being benched, kept in minors, brought up to the NHL, increase or decrease of ice time, or traded to places they may not have selected themselves.

We all cannot compare our jobs and how we would do things in the non-entertainment careers where most of us are cogs in an organization and we can relocate relatively easily to another city and work in our profession.

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1548004343168712704

[Heavy Jack]

In watching Gaudreau’s end of year after seeing Chucky’s posted the thing that stands out to me most is when he says regardless of what happens ahead here ‘I just want to be remembered as a good guy.’ This is pretty telling in a lot of ways to me because it can be read that he had his mind made up ahead of everything and he did truly want to play closer to home. With him saying that he wants to be remembered in Calgary as a good guy (which unfortunately right now isn’t the case for Johnny for many fans) it tells me that he didn’t want to appear to be the one wanting out. I don’t think Johnny thought that the Flames/ownership wouldn’t meet his demands but the problem was the flames were consistently meeting his demands. I think when the Flames met the supposed final ultimatum contract to a T and they went silent is when Johnny probably was the most torn through all this, the Flames called his bluff all the way to the 11th hour and unfortunately for him it damaged his brand in Calgary and going into UFA. It’s a fascinating yet painful series of events and I think honestly had Johnny been more open to the Flames camp and it would appear also to his own camp/gross then maybe he could have even ended up in Philly. I’m sure there was a deal to be had there a month ago heading into the draft but with how Johnny handled things the Flames thought there was a chance right up until they were dealt the bad news. Pretty immature way to see the whole thing unfold, gotta just move on now and try to build some sort of plan. Hoping Treliving can either pivot or accept that the core is done if Chucky starts heading down the same path as Gaudreau.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, and discussing these possibilities is literally how people hope to gain more understanding.

But you're right - why bother discussing anything? Let's all put our hands, shout "I don't know!" and call it a day.

The point wasn't that we shouldn't discuss it. Its that people are coming up with their own conclusions to fit the narrative they want with incomplete information.

What happened and why it happened is still unknown to us and may always be that way.

[TheIronMaiden]

I may be in the minority, but I don't think any less of JG as a player or a person because of this. Right now he is a top 5 Flame all time, and provided 8 years of entertainment, nothing that happened in the last 5 days changes this for me.

I wanted more from his era of the Flames. The Flames had JG under one of the most team friendly contracts in the NHL, and did very little with it. My frustration is less with the player, and is more about knowing that the best is not still to come.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Inferno099

In this case 2 years ago JG said he could see himself playing his entire career here. Obviously that changed - the team moves forward but it is crappy the Flames did not see this before.

Myself I have been a big supporter of #13 since the date he was drafted so this week is not great. I was naïve in thinking he would be here actually playing for the Flames for 13 or more years. (I do not use the drafted date as he seems to bring up in interviews)


CSEC definitely holds on to the top players way too long when the team is not a contender.

I definitely agree though with Iginla he should have been traded a year or more earlier.

Not a popular take by many on CP but after the Norris I would have traded Giordano. Flames were not contenders and it did not make sense to keep him when there likely was a market then.

Now with Matthew Tkachuk - after what just occurred with JG - before the season starts the Flames need to either sign him long term (if they think he will eventually adapt to playoff hockey and perform well)....
or complete the QO or arbitration contract if that occurs and trade him to the highest bidder.

No way can they have head in the sand again. Look how quick the Columbus offer was completed for John G. If Matthew Tkachuk and Treliving can't come to an agreement to extend it makes no sense at all to keep him in Calgary

Key thing and I get the argument players should be able to select where they want to play based on the agreements that are in place for the 32 teams to operate. Johnny did nothing wrong that way in itself and Flames management should have had a deadline well ahead...
and possibly go forward if they may now decide to have a deadline before the season starts with any players they want to sign long term.

We will wait and see.

NHL is a business and the players are the product....
so yes there is the treatment of players being benched, kept in minors, brought up to the NHL, increase or decrease of ice time, or traded to places they may not have selected themselves.

We all cannot compare our jobs and how we would do things in the non-entertainment careers where most of us are cogs in an organization and we can relocate relatively easily to another city and work in our profession.

I agree with your general idea - but the easiest thing for a GM to do in sports is tear down a team. You can suck forever and hope you win the lottery the year that the next McDavid or Crosby comes along. But there are risks to that. You can be Buffalo and not win that lottery and still suck a decade later. You can win the lottery a billion times like the Oilers but in years without that uber star and still suck (until you hit the jackpot).


Building the actual winning team is harder. The Flames were a contending team this year.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Eye of the beholder. The Flames were the master of their own demise in this situation for not taking care of such a critical contract a year ago, and not pushing to get a final answer earlier than the final minutes.

It is just reckless and idiotic for your GM to handle such an asset so poorly and really speaks volumes that he is completely unfit to continue to manage the team. The player could have done many things differently leading up to this, but it all could have been mitigated, at least somewhat had the team not acted like a bush league minor league team.

A simple call: "He Johnny, if we don't hear back from you by the draft we are assuming you are out." "The door might still be open but we are going to explore other options and can't guarantee anything afterwards."

I am not sure a contract wasn't offered a year ago. Johnnys camp were the ones that said they didn't want to discuss it. The Flames showed Johnny every step of this season they were committed to winning with the acquisitions they made during the season. End of the day Johnny knew he was not signing here again but didn't let the Flames know his true intentions. Going forward I believe the approach will be that players express their desire to remain here and put pen to paper or they get moved. If you go after a FA and their stipulation to sign is they have to be given extra term to do so then move on... that's why we had the Neal situation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I agree with your general idea - but the easiest thing for a GM to do in sports is tear down a team. You can suck forever and hope you win the lottery the year that the next McDavid or Crosby comes along. But there are risks to that. You can be Buffalo and not win that lottery and still suck a decade later. You can win the lottery a billion times like the Oilers but in years without that uber star and still suck (until you hit the jackpot).


Building the actual winning team is harder. The Flames were a contending team this year.

I'm not so sure about that. GM's are competitors. They want to win as bad as anyone and I feel Treliving has always really liked his core of players and if anything is too attached to them. I don't think it would be easy at all for him to start selling these guys off to rebuild. I don't think any GM really enjoys tanking or rebuilding. Most only do it when it's clearly apparent that it's the best direction for the team. I don't get the feeling anyone in the Flames building feels this way right now.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He can’t force him to sign, just like I can’t force a witness to tell the truth. But I’m obligated to not cooperate if I know that’s going to happen, and if it ever happened in front of me I’d have to step aside right there (thankfully never).

So if Gross withdraws from representing him on that basis I retract my opinion. But I doubt it went down that way.

Are sports agents actually members of the bar and acting as lawyers in the execution of their roles? Genuinely curious.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I may be in the minority, but I don't think any less of JG as a player or a person because of this. Right now he is a top 5 Flame all time, and provided 8 years of entertainment, nothing that happened in the last 5 days changes this for me.

I wanted more from his era of the Flames. The Flames had JG under one of the most team friendly contracts in the NHL, and did very little with it. My frustration is less with the player, and is more about knowing that the best is not still to come.

*Regular season