Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

NBA tried this and it failed spectacularly. Not going to listen to a full hour of this, are there any worthwhile takeaways that this guy is doing differently than the previous round of NFT's? Because they went from hero to zero pretty quick.

https://nftnow.com/features/what-hap...-nba-top-shot/

I didn't listen the whole thing in its entirety either, but after glancing at the summary notes, I doubt it. IMO Crypto will evolve into something similar to a stock certificate one day and NFTs will devolve into something like a certificate of authenticity for a digital or physical good one day.

This current iteration of NFTs is still basically the equivalent of being sold a bill of goods. NFTS concepts are going to be super valuable for digital collectibles etc. But for memorabilia and art and crap like that... it's so dumb.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

NBA tried this and it failed spectacularly. Not going to listen to a full hour of this, are there any worthwhile takeaways that this guy is doing differently than the previous round of NFT's? Because they went from hero to zero pretty quick.

https://nftnow.com/features/what-hap...-nba-top-shot/

It's not so focused on collectible moments as I understand TopShot to have been. It's more about having tokens issued by specific teams, and holders of the tokens then being able to engage with the team more via those tokens, such as by getting access to special fan experiences or being able to participate in fan votes to decide things for the team. An example he mentions is token holders being able to choose the goal songs for the team by having a token-holder vote.

I think they said they have been doing it with Paris Saint-Germain and either Real Madrid or Athletico Madrid. The idea is that teams with very large followings can monetize those fan relationships with fans all over the world in ways that they couldn't do before, and the most enthusiastic fans can have ways to engage directly with the team in ways they've never had before. I guess with the Flames it could be the same. Maybe Flames fans all over the world getting to choose Huberdeau's goal song, or deciding whether or not blasty should be used for the third jersey etc. and the Flames generating more revenue via monetizing this kind of relationship.

I know there was also a DAO, maybe called LeagueDAO or something, that was doing much more involved fan voting where fans could actually influence the plays being run by their team in their football game. Never saw how that worked in detail, but it's much more extreme than the kind of stuff suggested here.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It's not so focused on collectible moments as I understand TopShot to have been. It's more about having tokens issued by specific teams, and holders of the tokens then being able to engage with the team more via those tokens, such as by getting access to special fan experiences or being able to participate in fan votes to decide things for the team. An example he mentions is token holders being able to choose the goal songs for the team by having a token-holder vote.

I think they said they have been doing it with Paris Saint-Germain and either Real Madrid or Athletico Madrid. The idea is that teams with very large followings can monetize those fan relationships with fans all over the world in ways that they couldn't do before, and the most enthusiastic fans can have ways to engage directly with the team in ways they've never had before. I guess with the Flames it could be the same. Maybe Flames fans all over the world getting to choose Huberdeau's goal song, or deciding whether or not blasty should be used for the third jersey etc. and the Flames generating more revenue via monetizing this kind of relationship.

I know there was also a DAO, maybe called LeagueDAO or something, that was doing much more involved fan voting where fans could actually influence the plays being run by their team in their football game. Never saw how that worked in detail, but it's much more extreme than the kind of stuff suggested here.

Sounds like the same thing then. That being said, there's something a little more fungible to this generation of tokens you're describing, but it's still really iffy. I honestly think these NFTs need to be attached to physical memorabilia to really start to work as described.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It's not so focused on collectible moments as I understand TopShot to have been. It's more about having tokens issued by specific teams, and holders of the tokens then being able to engage with the team more via those tokens, such as by getting access to special fan experiences or being able to participate in fan votes to decide things for the team. An example he mentions is token holders being able to choose the goal songs for the team by having a token-holder vote.

I think they said they have been doing it with Paris Saint-Germain and either Real Madrid or Athletico Madrid. The idea is that teams with very large followings can monetize those fan relationships with fans all over the world in ways that they couldn't do before, and the most enthusiastic fans can have ways to engage directly with the team in ways they've never had before. I guess with the Flames it could be the same. Maybe Flames fans all over the world getting to choose Huberdeau's goal song, or deciding whether or not blasty should be used for the third jersey etc. and the Flames generating more revenue via monetizing this kind of relationship.

I know there was also a DAO, maybe called LeagueDAO or something, that was doing much more involved fan voting where fans could actually influence the plays being run by their team in their football game. Never saw how that worked in detail, but it's much more extreme than the kind of stuff suggested here.

Didn't that used to just be a 'fan club'? why would you need a fan club to be any more involved than charging 50 bucks and having a mailing list? you could go all high tech and do it all over email, send out a news letter with an online poll.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Didn't that used to just be a 'fan club'? why would you need a fan club to be any more involved than charging 50 bucks and having a mailing list? you could go all high tech and do it all over email, send out a news letter with an online poll.

I think the point is this is another scheme, another form of advetrtising to milk people for all they can. I don't really see how this benefits people at all. It might make them feel like Tier 1 fans, but when you evaluate it logically, it's just another money hoover.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think the point is this is another scheme, another form of advetrtising to milk people for all they can. I don't really see how this benefits people at all. It might make them feel like Tier 1 fans, but when you evaluate it logically, it's just another money hoover.

Yeah, from the team point of view the incentive is definitely monetizing more of their relationships with fans than they could before. In terms of not just doing a mail list, it's basically about being able to create many more kinds of interactions and incentives in place than could be done with a mail list. For example, he talked about doing something where every time a goal is scored a token, such as a picture of the goal, gets air dropped into the wallets of 0.1% of token holders, and anyone who holds pictures of all the goals by the end of the season gets to hang out with their favorite player for a day or whatever else would incentivize their fans to collect. That would require fans buying/selling the pictures between themselves to see who could collect them all, and the chain that they would be doing it on would be a team or league owned chain where they run the validation nodes and so the team or league also collects all the transaction fees of the network.

From the fan side, the incentives would be the fun of collecting, speculating, feeling like they're more engaged, or getting the chance to have some unique experiences or benefits, but the driving factor for the team would definitely be the ability to generate new revenue streams from fans.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think the point is this is another scheme, another form of advetrtising to milk people for all they can. I don't really see how this benefits people at all. It might make them feel like Tier 1 fans, but when you evaluate it logically, it's just another money hoover.

I realize this, it just seems like there are easier ways to rip people off

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I realize this, it just seems like there are easier ways to rip people off

They already charge $250 for a shirt, and the dome is full of people wearing those, not to mention the concessions prices. They're already using a lot of the easy ways to rip people off. Isn't this just the vibrance of capitalism?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yeah, from the team point of view the incentive is definitely monetizing more of their relationships with fans than they could before. In terms of not just doing a mail list, it's basically about being able to create many more kinds of interactions and incentives in place than could be done with a mail list. For example, he talked about doing something where every time a goal is scored a token, such as a picture of the goal, gets air dropped into the wallets of 0.1% of token holders, and anyone who holds pictures of all the goals by the end of the season gets to hang out with their favorite player for a day or whatever else would incentivize their fans to collect. That would require fans buying/selling the pictures between themselves to see who could collect them all, and the chain that they would be doing it on would be a team or league owned chain where they run the validation nodes and so the team or league also collects all the transaction fees of the network.

From the fan side, the incentives would be the fun of collecting, speculating, feeling like they're more engaged, or getting the chance to have some unique experiences or benefits, but the driving factor for the team would definitely be the ability to generate new revenue streams from fans.

This sounds awfully convoluted for what it sets out to accomplish, assuming fans even would consider any of this engaging or fun.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This sounds awfully convoluted for what it sets out to accomplish, assuming fans even would consider any of this engaging or fun.

Is it that convoluted? From a fan experience point of view it's not that different from trying to collect a whole set of hockey cards from packs that are given away in individual happy meals, just done digitally. The fan ultimately shouldn't really need to know anything about the tech on the back end anyways, but they're talking about starting with people who are crypto native to begin with as the target audience and then expanding to wider audiences in 3-5 years or more. By then there will be plenty of web3 user experiences that don't feel like using crypto at all.

[dobbles]

I'm still failing to see what is different about this approach that requires blockchain or NFT or fungible items? Can't we already easily do all the things described?

And please do not take this as me attacking the example instead of the premise, but I am a rube here and mostly just like to read and learn from you guys. But in this scenario, of fan votes or random winners of tokens and making up full collections for bigger prizes, what about that can't be done currently with some form of database driven CRM?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I'm still failing to see what is different about this approach that requires blockchain or NFT or fungible items? Can't we already easily do all the things described?

And please do not take this as me attacking the example instead of the premise, but I am a rube here and mostly just like to read and learn from you guys. But in this scenario, of fan votes or random winners of tokens and making up full collections for bigger prizes, what about that can't be done currently with some form of database driven CRM?

I do wonder if some of these projects are just built out to take advantage of the cyrpto/nft enthusiasts segment of their fans because it does sound similar to what you say - but with an added technical aspect that will cut out like 90% of the fans who have no idea about a crypto wallet or how NFTs works.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I'm still failing to see what is different about this approach that requires blockchain or NFT or fungible items? Can't we already easily do all the things described?

And please do not take this as me attacking the example instead of the premise, but I am a rube here and mostly just like to read and learn from you guys. But in this scenario, of fan votes or random winners of tokens and making up full collections for bigger prizes, what about that can't be done currently with some form of database driven CRM?

Ya, there is nothing here that a database and app couldn't handle. They'd actually handle it better, because they have central control with mechanisms for fixing fraud and mistakes. There is no reason to distribute and remove centralization for tokenization of the sporting industry, in fact, for those organizations who control their brand, it's a bug, not a feature. Why would, say, the NHL turn this over to someone else when they could do it themselves and maintain control of all aspects of it?

While he presented some interesting ideas and concepts(I did listen to a bit of it), they do not require blockchain to implement.

I've yet to see a compelling product for the "Web 3.0" space. I suspect it's all just going to quietly go away, as corporations realize it's a useless money pit, and consumers struggle to find anything of value in it for them, and evangelists pretend it's not all just a sea of ideas shoehorned into a technical framework that doesn't make much sense when you think about it for 3 minutes.

[Izzle]

One of my fave websites in this space, with near daily updates

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Is it that convoluted? From a fan experience point of view it's not that different from trying to collect a whole set of hockey cards from packs that are given away in individual happy meals, just done digitally. The fan ultimately shouldn't really need to know anything about the tech on the back end anyways, but they're talking about starting with people who are crypto native to begin with as the target audience and then expanding to wider audiences in 3-5 years or more. By then there will be plenty of web3 user experiences that don't feel like using crypto at all.

I think it’s convoluted from the implementation perspective, I’d agree that the end-user would probably not need to understand or care about the minutiae of what is behind whatever app or system they’re using, so long as it works reliably.

What it seems like though is there are desperate attempts to find some useful application for this that isn’t served better already. I don’t understand the evangelicalism over this tech, it really just needs to live in the background like virtually all other tech does.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yeah, from the team point of view the incentive is definitely monetizing more of their relationships with fans than they could before. In terms of not just doing a mail list, it's basically about being able to create many more kinds of interactions and incentives in place than could be done with a mail list. For example, he talked about doing something where every time a goal is scored a token, such as a picture of the goal, gets air dropped into the wallets of 0.1% of token holders, and anyone who holds pictures of all the goals by the end of the season gets to hang out with their favorite player for a day or whatever else would incentivize their fans to collect. That would require fans buying/selling the pictures between themselves to see who could collect them all, and the chain that they would be doing it on would be a team or league owned chain where they run the validation nodes and so the team or league also collects all the transaction fees of the network.

From the fan side, the incentives would be the fun of collecting, speculating, feeling like they're more engaged, or getting the chance to have some unique experiences or benefits, but the driving factor for the team would definitely be the ability to generate new revenue streams from fans.

Those are still fungible items and it's very clear you're getting something in return, even if it's over priced.

NFT are literally "Non Fungible Tokens". It's wisp. Now, if the NFT was associated with a milestone puck and then people think it's cooler that they can share that online as an additional aspect to memorabilia, or if you bought specific item(s) that allowed you to specially share a unique clip via NFT of a player coming to town you could share on social media... those NFT functioning like a digital certificate of authenticity + something additional to a function item might make sense as it's adding a clear benefit and value to the purchaser. But if purely non fungible, it's lipstick on a pig nothing.

I've mentioned before that NFT are perfect digital DRM for something like a super unique weapon or item in a game if it's digital only. Any less than this in terms of an owners ability to use/enjoy is pointless IMO.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Izzle

One of my fave websites in this space, with near daily updates

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

Yeah this site is great. Really well curated and keeps me up on a lot of exploit news that I sometimes would otherwise miss.

Slanted reporting ofc, but still quite valuable.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think it’s convoluted from the implementation perspective, I’d agree that the end-user would probably not need to understand or care about the minutiae of what is behind whatever app or system they’re using, so long as it works reliably.

What it seems like though is there are desperate attempts to find some useful application for this that isn’t served better already. I don’t understand the evangelicalism over this tech, it really just needs to live in the background like virtually all other tech does.

I don't really see this as evangelism of the tech. It's just a model that seems to have a business case for teams with large followings and is being used by some. Part of the business case could definitely be tapping into the market of crypto enthusiasts/users, but if teams are able to make good money off it I wouldn't be surprised to see it spread into more leagues.

From the implementation side, sports teams are going to be dependent upon partners for running their tech anyways, so I would think from their end the key questions would be about how it can generate new revenue and what risks/opportunities it poses for their brand. To them, the technicals of it being run on a blockchain or being run on a centralized server wouldn't be what they care about, so it's interesting to see how an old-school, non-tech, non-finance industry that doesn't care about the tech might still be enticed to use it on the basis of the business case enabled by the tech.

Maybe it succeeds. Maybe it doesn't. It's just something interesting. That's all.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't really see this as evangelism of the tech. It's just a model that seems to have a business case for teams with large followings and is being used by some. Part of the business case could definitely be tapping into the market of crypto enthusiasts/users, but if teams are able to make good money off it I wouldn't be surprised to see it spread into more leagues.

From the implementation side, sports teams are going to be dependent upon partners for running their tech anyways, so I would think from their end the key questions would be about how it can generate new revenue and what risks/opportunities it poses for their brand. To them, the technicals of it being run on a blockchain or being run on a centralized server wouldn't be what they care about, so it's interesting to see how an old-school, non-tech, non-finance industry that doesn't care about the tech might still be enticed to use it on the basis of the business case enabled by the tech.

Maybe it succeeds. Maybe it doesn't. It's just something interesting. That's all.

But it isn't enabled by blockchain tech, in particular. It's just one way to do it. Maybe good for some cases, but I'd say it doesn't sound like a particularly great way to do that stuff.

Of course, whether it's optimal or sub-optimal for the purpose is kind of neither here nor there if you ask me. Not that many things in IT are actually done in the optimal way anyway, and mostly the only people who care are the people who have to do the actual work of first creating and then managing the thing. Which is why it isn't that exciting.

Tech bros love re-inventing wheels with every new buzzword.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Itse

But it isn't enabled by blockchain tech, in particular. It's just one way to do it. Maybe good for some cases, but I'd say it doesn't sound like a particularly great way to do that stuff.

Of course, whether it's optimal or sub-optimal for the purpose is kind of neither here nor there if you ask me. Not that many things in IT are actually done in the optimal way anyway, and mostly the only people who care are the people who have to do the actual work of first creating and then managing the thing. Which is why it isn't that exciting.

Tech bros love re-inventing wheels with every new buzzword.

If a part of the business case is targeting the crypto enthusiasts/users, then it is definitely enabled by using blockchain tech.