I don't know that it is. One of my friends told me that "Black people/person/etc" is ok (capital B) but "blacks" or "black people" is definitely not. I assume it's the difference between referring to them as a people vs a colour of people. In the same way you would say "Canadian people" and not "canadian people".
Not to say that's definitive.
I think Canadian Press Style/Standards recently made this exact change to their guidelines, so there's precedent.
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Dumb question maybe, but when did it become ok to call African American PoC "blacks" again?
I know #blacklivesmatter etc etc. But I thought we were being taught, even a decade ago, that calling all darker skin people in our society "black" is insensitive?
I've been caught off guard with some of the language around this as well (on and off Calgarypuck).
First, I think it's important to note the difference between Canada and the States. I know in the States that some people prefer African American or person of colour as black is considered offensive (i.e. "He's black" vs "He's African American"). But in Canada, where African American doesn't really fit, that black was a fine descriptor. But it would still be frowned upon to refer to the entirety of Black people as "blacks".
Edit: And apparently now it should be capitalized.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 06-10-2020 at 10:00 AM.
Dumb question maybe, but when did it become ok to call African American PoC "blacks" again?
I know #blacklivesmatter etc etc. But I thought we were being taught, even a decade ago, that calling all darker skin people in our society "black" is insensitive?
I got schooled once by an American black man on this. Basically it went along the lines of, I don't refer to myself as a European American (Canadian) because 5 generations ago I had someone born in England, so why should I be calling him an African American. He's never been to Africa, has no ties to Africa. "I'm American, I'm black, I'm not African."
It was only anecdotal and there is definitely an insensitivity in many minds to calling people just by the colour of their skin; but he felt like he was being segregated into being an African first, then an American. It make sense to me, but does cause a lot of confusion sometimes when trying to not be insensitive.
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I got schooled once by an American black man on this. Basically it went along the lines of, I don't refer to myself as a European American (Canadian) because 5 generations ago I had someone born in England, so why should I be calling him an African American. He's never been to Africa, has no ties to Africa. "I'm American, I'm black, I'm not African."
And yet tonnes of white folks like to lay claim to being "Scottish" or "Irish" or "Italian" having never step foot in those countries.
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I'm a middle-aged white guy, so treat my opinion on this with the appropriate degree of authority it deserves (none), but I use "black", "African American", "Person/People of Colour", etc. in ways that humanize the people I'm talking about. Basically, I think it's acceptable to say black if you use it as an adjective but not a noun. For example, saying, "Barack Obama was the first black president" is fine, as is "Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was filmed murdering George Floyd, a 46 year-old black man." Conversely, using black as a noun is dehumanizing and makes you sound like Lucille Bluth. If you blame a societal ill on "the blacks" or describe a person as "a black", you're probably a racist.
Incidentally, it's the same with the word "female". It's completely normal to use it as an adjective, like describing Kim Campbell as "Canada's first female prime minister". On the other hand, people who use it as a noun and refer to women as "females" come off like creepy misogynistic incels...or Ferengi.
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I'm a middle-aged white guy, so treat my opinion on this with the appropriate degree of authority it deserves (none), but I use "black", "African American", "Person/People of Colour", etc. in ways that humanize the people I'm talking about. Basically, I think it's acceptable to say black if you use it as an adjective but not a noun. For example, saying, "Barack Obama was the first black president" is fine, as is "Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was filmed murdering George Floyd, a 46 year-old black man." Conversely, using black as a noun is dehumanizing and makes you sound like Lucille Bluth. If you blame a societal ill on "the blacks" or describe a person as "a black", you're probably a racist.
Incidentally, it's the same with the word "female". It's completely normal to use it as an adjective, like describing Kim Campbell as "Canada's first female prime minister". On the other hand, people who use it as a noun and refer to women as "females" come off like creepy misogynistic incels...or Ferengi.
Oh come on! Dont drag the Ferengi into this! They had nothing to do with this!
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I don't know that it is. One of my friends told me that "Black people/person/etc" is ok (capital B) but "blacks" or "black people" is definitely not. I assume it's the difference between referring to them as a people vs a colour of people. In the same way you would say "Canadian people" and not "canadian people".
Not to say that's definitive.
Should we unpack how this is conveyed in spoken language or ...?
I have been exclusively using PoC in all texted or posted written word stuff.
I have used the words "cops should probably stop killing b(B)lack people" vocally, but all the while wondering, "am I supposed to be using that delineation?"
It's tough to be sensitive to what PoC feel is offensive without being overly sensitive because some non PoC (white people) feel like going overboard and telling you you can't use any terms at all (even as a descriptor in a neutral situation). If that makes any sense? I don't have an American friends who are also PoC, so it is tough to gauge. I have Canadian friends who are, and say they couldn't give a rats ass, as long as you don't call them African Americans or the n word.
Should we unpack how this is conveyed in spoken language or ...?
It's the same criteria, as long as you're referring to a people and not a colour of people, as far as I'm aware, that's probably ok. The reason you don't see it really addressed in spoken language is because the difference is pretty hard to perceive and relies heavily on context.
It's not even like the difference is the difference between "being a racist" and "not being a racist" in written language. "Black" is generally appropriate, the correct usage of it in written language is with a capital B. If you use write it with a lowercase B you're not a bad person or evil or something off the wall like that, you're just not using it correctly. If I refer to the Black community in spoken language, nobody is asking me "Capital B or lowercase B???" and if I were to say "black community" in written language (and I have) the worst I got was "the correct use is with a capital B." It's just mentally wrapping your head around it as an appropriate replacement of "African Americans" or whatever, not as a colour descriptor.
When you get into what March said, where "black" becomes a noun (the blacks, a black, etc.) in written OR spoken language, you're obviously offside.
People dancing on eggshells on how to reference ethnic groups in conversation is definitely an issue that IMO causes unwarranted anxiety.
You could be having a perfectly fluid and reasonable conversation about current affairs and then that pause, uncomfortable look around, in your head you're flipping through what was acceptable yesterday to reference say, a Black person (is it African American? African Canadian? Black? ), and is it acceptable today, because it changes as we roll along.
Its all so weird.
Reminds me of an early family guy episode when Stewie wants to tell a black joke and scours the whole city too see if a black person is within earshot and when he tells the joke a black person pops out of the plant pot beside him.
2nd guessing doesn't help. If its Black with a capital B, good. I mean Chappelle's covered this exact thing on Chapelle show before. Let's all get on the same page and move on. I find PoC a little on the wrong side of the coin. Still has a racist connotation to me.
I don't see an issue with Black as a reference point if they're good with it. African American definitely never made much sense to me even when I was under the impression that that was the safest descriptor for North American Black people. It was what I was instructed to use when writing police statements back in my bouncer days. So it was just that.
Last edited by dammage79; 06-10-2020 at 11:47 AM.
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Ellen Degeneres just got in a bunch of trouble for saying People of Color as it relates to the ongoing protests. The controversy there is that these protests are specifically about how Black people are treated.
Living in Virginia, I find that the people most likely to use African American are the ones trying hard not to seem racist, but have zero significant interactions with Black people and are the ones to slowly walk inside their house and lock the door if a Black teenager is walking down the street.
Ellen Degeneres just got in a bunch of trouble for saying People of Color as it relates to the ongoing protests. The controversy there is that these protests are specifically about how Black people are treated.
Living in Virginia, I find that the people most likely to use African American are the ones trying hard not to seem racist, but have zero significant interactions with Black people and are the ones to slowly walk inside their house and lock the door if a Black teenager is walking down the street.
It's getting crazy. Wendy Mesley is probably going to get fired from CBC for using the N-word in a meeting. She was using it in the context of quoting someone else.
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